Even the Touareg which I would expect to be about the worst for initial depreciation is not even close.
So lets look at one of those.
In fact, lets look at the worst depreciation period as well, which I reckon will likely be the 4 year old mark.
Assuming a higher km example at that time and a realistic private sale price, I would say you are looking at 50% depreciation. remember thats over 4 years no 2 and its still better!
If you were to compare the Amarok being VW's Ute and more relevant, I can't even give you an accurate example. Early ones are rarely for sale and when they are they are snapped up quick. If I had to take a guess I would say 20% depreciation in two years.
Feel free to correct me on the Amarok though if you can provide an example of a cheap one, I haven't seen any, although I don't really follow them.
morrisman1,
Oct 8, 2:28am
The chinese have been copying for ages, but about the improving bit, well Im yet to see it in anything they produce. Maybe its a culture thing
gman35,
Oct 8, 2:29am
I see a 2011 J11 for private sale $13k , and it has leather interior , I know there are "different grades" of leather , but what in God's name will the stuff that they use be like !
tazcsv,
Oct 8, 2:38am
Half of your so called leather interiors are not leather, most of it is man made mushed up crap with some mushed up leather added so they can call it leather.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 8, 2:42am
Continued from my post above.
Since we are on the subject.
You might be thinking, well that's all very will the VW doesn't depreciate as much percentage wise, what about in actual dollar terms!
Well the owner of the Great Wall in question has lost about $14'000 if they make the sale.
20% on as close to as equivalent as possible Amarok would be $8600, to be super fair lets add interest @ 16% (UDC car loan rate) over two years on the difference in purchase price between the two.
That's $5440, plus the depreciation of $8600 giving us $14'040.
That of course by fluke is almost exactly the depreciation cost on the Great Wall. So at this point they could have had a MUCH better truck for the same price.
But wait. we havn't considered fuel costs over the two years. With the VW, they would have saved about $6200 over the Great Wall.
So really, the way I see it, they could have bought the MUCH nicer, safer, lower maintenance Amarok and still been over $6000 better off after 2 years.
So where is the logic in buying a Great Wall!
monaro17,
Oct 8, 2:48am
Agree 100%. There is no logic
mm12345,
Oct 8, 2:58am
I tend to agree.The Japanese didn't rely on foreign brands forcing western QA methods. In fact the reverse happened eventually - Western car makers were forced to adopt Japanese methods, or die. China is run by thugs.The west just excuses their thuggery for so long as the political advantage of having shops full of cheap Chinese crap for the masses outweighs the wholesale destruction of manufacturing in countries which still have minimum expectations and standards for workers.
gman35,
Oct 8, 3:08am
Yep , people just look at the original purchase price , it's the same in my bicycle trade , I just tell people that a "bike" simply cannot be made to be a) safe b) adjustable (buildable by any proper mechanic) or c) light enough , for the $179 that Kmart etc sell it for. To me many people just seem to have forgotten the joy and "feel" of having anything of decent quality these days. Why on earth would you buy a new cheap (priced and feeling) vehicle when you could have a warrantied , used one of far better quality , and therefore driving enjoyment also , and not lose near as many $$$$ when you actually trade/sell it ! Do some people just want a NEW vehicle at any price !
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 8, 3:13am
I agree, this is one of those subjects that many people don't think through properly.
Sure, the Japanese copied and still copy to this day, but its done in a far more legitimate manner than the Chinese. Sure the Toyoda family in particular founded their entire business on copying others designs, but most of that copying as I understand it was pretty legal because of how they improved things or a lack of copyright held on a design.
The likes of the famous BMC designs that Datsun used to develop their product were all used under license as far as I understand.
With regard to quality control, Japan's quality control was terrible, you are technically incorrect though in that it was mostly improved by the westerner's. Howeverit was not improved by forcing standards and strict supervision like standing over a naughty child to make sure they eat their vegetables.
Kaizen (the act of continuous improvement) and other business ideals were welcomed by the Japanese who were eager to learn, and are so fond of these principles (even today) that they are now part of the very fabric of Japanese business and culture.
This is a very different situation to what we have with China, their business culture could not be more different. Unlike post war Japan they are mostly capable but they choose to take shortcuts wherever possible, whereas the Japanese were very interested in efficiency, quality and personal/national pride in their products.
As for unauthorised copying, its an absolute joke, each of the Chinese vehicle importers that sell here as far as I am aware are all guilty of completely copying entire vehicles from their competitors. We are talking billions of dollars worth of R and D stolen. Yet we welcome them with open arms and arrest Kim Dotcom. There is no logic.
That's my take on it anyhow, someone more learned in Japanese business history may be able to shed more light on things.
a.woodrow,
Oct 8, 4:34am
You probably won't hear from a great wall owner on here. Most people that post here are in the trade in some way and know to steer clear of them
mm12345,
Oct 8, 5:13am
Sure it may be technically incorrect, but perhaps "practically correct".Kaizen had been established for decades before the influx of quality goods from the '60s, when every photo-journalist sported a Nikon F, concert pianists discovered the Yamaha piano, if you were lucky you had a National Panasonic world band radio and a Sony Trinitron colour TV. I'm not sure if the same will ever happen with Chinese goods, despite the fact thatI'm very happy with Jiangmen City Hongsin Food Company preserved Black Beans.They probably took a few centuries to get those right.
matarautrader,
Oct 8, 5:44am
We have four at work. The utes seem adequete ( dont forget they are basically half price) but the Cherrys arn't that good.
roundtop,
Oct 8, 5:57am
Thankyou so so much for all the comment I think we will just leave the Great Wall alone.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 8, 7:04am
Oh I agree, you are practically correct. The nature of Kaizen is it does take a while to get established properly. I don't see the same happening in China in the foreseeable future as they already have the ability to produce quality goods they just don't have the motivation. This is the exact opposite to the Japanese post WW2. If you can provide an incentive (cultural or otherwise) you will however get change. This has already been well proven with brand name goods produced under supervision in China.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 8, 7:06am
As demonstrated in the example a few posts above (posts 27 and 31), only the sticker price is cheaper, in that example at least the actual cost of ownership was higher than that of a quality ute.
Its the actual total cost of ownership that matters.
gman35,
Oct 8, 11:12pm
& also part of the "cost" surely is simply how they feel to drive everyday . As I said earlier , do some people just discount a "known" brand because they look at the new price which is too much for them , but don't even compare a 3-4 yr old example !, (and thats without how the Great Wall is going to drive with a few thousand K's on it).
ally-oop,
Oct 9, 3:44am
Communist junl
chebry,
Oct 9, 3:50am
You are a stubby short arent you, nevermind you'll get it The great wall is coppied from the mid 90sToyota Hilux remember how awful those were yep absolute junk right and rebel armies all over the place are happy to have great Wall pickups to mount artillery weapons on so they cant be tooo bad aye if they cant get Toyotas.
timmo1,
Oct 9, 4:04am
No they didn't- Sakichi Toyoda invented a series of automatic looms which lead the world in terms of efficiency.
3tomany,
Oct 9, 5:42am
i did that when i bought my last ute it was 44k for a jap ute 30k for a great wall so i did my numbers and using my mileage and circumstances took an educated guess on the cost of running both utes and the jap ute costing 14k more came out 10k cheaper over 5 years. Do youre own numbers, i could put mine on here but it would look like one of jazzes posts lol
chebry,
Oct 9, 5:52am
timmo1 wrote: No they didn't- Sakichi Toyoda invented a series of automatic looms which lead the world in terms of efficiency.[/quote
For his sewing weaving business Toyoda was an innovator but for cars he just copied Chevys.
3tomany,
Oct 9, 5:55am
Not a very bright post gunhand.A crash test at 60kmh into a solid imovable obtect is supposed to simulate the average crash at 100kmh because most objects a car hits are destructable. But if you hit and indistructable object you are screwed no matter what vehicle you are in
gunhand,
Oct 9, 5:59am
I see your point here. But whats the speed of two vehicles hitting each other at 100kph!Yep, hit a large tree at 100kph or less its gunna hurt for sure no arguement there.
3tomany,
Oct 9, 6:03am
on the crash thing if you employ staff and that staff member gets killed in a car with a poor crash rating you may well be liable for not taking all reasonable actions to avoid that death
gunhand,
Oct 9, 6:06am
Not providing a safe work enviroment!Give it time.
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