Nissan Stagea?

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charles.j, Jan 10, 12:11am
Would you buy one!

Looking at something between 2002-2005. The 2.5L model. The reason I ask, is because I'd like a RWD station wagon that has a bit more guts than my mazda 626(towing the jetski up the ramp on a FWD isn't too fun, plus I want a wagon)

I'm not too familiar with the ins and outs of cars, only marine gear, so forgive me if I seem a little ignorant

I've seen a 4WD model, but they all seem to have a turbo. Was put off Subaru due to their reliability. I was also told the stagea has a similar engine to the skyline!

Any input would be fantastic :)

hotrodtodd1, Jan 10, 12:19am
I know a couple o folk who have the 2wd 2.5 wagons and they have no issues with reliability. The 4wd turbo would be way more fun tho.

charles.j, Jan 10, 12:21am
Thanks

I'm really just after something that I can throw all my dive gear & jetski gear into as well as having room for going away. The 626 was not very happy towing the jetski while having a full boot lol

I was just interested in known issues, my understanding was that the engine is quite reliable, and that being chain driven it's one less thing to worry about

The turbo model does look nice, and the 4WD would be perfect for the sand ramps, quite tempting.

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 12:24am
The Stagea is quite thirsty,
Not a terrible choice but personally I would go for an Audi A4 or A6 Quattro wagon with either the 1.8T or V6 engine (even the V6 will do better on gas than the Stagea).

Much nicer wagon, you have a properly decent 4WD system yet they are still good and reliable and running costs are no worse than the Nissan. All for similar money too.

I would also consider the VW Passat 4Motion (their name for the same Quattro 4WD system). Although the Audi version is nicer.

How much did you intend on spending!

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 12:33am
Being timing chain driven is not the big advantage that car dealers make it out to be. Dealers love it because they don't have to pay for the service which is usually due on vehicles they sell.

However as a consumer its not so great. When a cambelt is changed there are multiple other things that are usually done at the same time (new coolant, tensioners, waterpump, thermostat etc)

Having a chain driven car means these tend to get neglected, also the chain systems are seldom perfect. Its not uncommon to have to replace a stretched chain or worn chain tensioners and this is much more expensive to do usually than a cambelt and tensioner change. Also, chain driven cars tend to use a little more fuel.

Don't get me wrong, chain driven is O.K but its not really an advantage and certainly not something to specifically go out and look for in a new car (despite what slimy dealers may tell you)

Remember too, you are probably only likely to pay for one timing belt change in the time you own the car anyway (assuming you keep cars as long as most people do).

westwyn, Jan 10, 12:54am
For what you are looking at doing, the Stagea 250RX would be an excellent choice for the money. They are rear-wheel-drive, have a well-proven drivetrain and generally wear well under daily usage. The 2.5 non-turbos use the VQ25DE engine, the same as the V35-series 2.5 Skylines (2001-on) which by and large is a decent powerplant- Wards Best Engine top-10 finalist year after year incidentally- issues with them tend to be rare, although I've seen the odd one stretch a timing chain or develop a rear main seal leak. No more, though, than any other model. The 4-speed automatic in the 2.5 is not quite as smooth as the 5-speeder in the 300RX model or facelift 2.5's, but it's quite adequate, and reliable. Stagea issues, if any, tend to be airbag or engine checklights coming on- these can vary wildly in cost to fix depending on the issue (if it has electric seats, the seatbelt sensor harness gets damaged over time by the seat track, has to be replaced and reset). Steer clear if you can from the model with the inbuilt Japanese GPS/TV and 6-stack CD player, these are notoriously unreliable and are VERY expensive to fix (a BOSE product, the stacker mechanism jams). Check the underbody around the rear suspension mounts and beams for corrosion, this is about the only weak spot on the Stagea for rust. This model has the very handy split folding back seat with quick-release levers built into the back of the tailgate bay, plus a very generous amount of space in the back itself.

Overall, for the money, I think these are good buying- like anything, there are a few quirks to be aware of but buy sensibly and you won't regret it. And no, the 2.5 non-turbos aren't that hungry on fuel either, if you drive reasonably. The 2.5 Turbos (250T, ARX etc) are a LOT of fun to drive- a real torque monster (400nM, at least 206kW but personally I believe they were under-rated to suit the Japanese power limitations of the day) and stick to the road like. well, you know. But they're also hungry on fuel and can spit the odd turbo too.

Good luck with your search!

charles.j, Jan 10, 1:49am
Hmm, I was put off the european cars because of the cost it takes to fix them(could be a myth!)

How thirsty would it be! As bad as a 2005 falcon!

About 11k

charles.j, Jan 10, 1:51am
Hmm, valid points. You are quite correct, I have only had to change the cambelt once on my current car

charles.j, Jan 10, 1:54am
Thanks for your post, very helpful!

I'm off to look at one this afternoon, I'll keep an eye out for the things you mentioned.

Naturally the car will have to pass an AA inspection before I buy it too

00quattro00, Jan 10, 2:59am
I looked at getting one for a towing and loading up, the 2.5 is too gutless. Would have been nice if they came with the v8, hence why im eyeing up an audi s6 wagon, 4.2l 40v v8 with 250kw and 420nm

phillip.weston, Jan 10, 3:18am
The non-turbo M35 Stageas use the VQ25DD or VQ30DD engines which are direct injection, with the turbo version using the conventional multi-port injection VQ25DET or VQ30DET. The direct injection motors can give trouble.

thunderbolt, Jan 10, 3:38am
Suggest you bypass the AA and VTNZ type inspections and get a workshop that knows the product to inspect.

rovercitroen, Jan 10, 3:58am
I have a 2006 350RX Stagea which has the VQ35DE engine (200 kW) which is not direct injection. Fantastic 5 speed tiptronic auto which I nearly always drive in "auto" as it always seems to be in the right gear. Only criticism I have is that the steering is a bit light for my taste and it doesn't quite feel like it "hugs the road' like my previous Jaguar XJ8 and BMW 740i did. According to my mechanic, who is a BMW / VW / Audi specialist, the Stagea is excellent for long term reliability. The 350 non-turbo is the pick of them although a guy at work has a 300 turbo and he is very happy with it.

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 4:31am
Yes, generally a Myth, you want to be weary of anyone who starts talking about "European Cars" like the many different makes and models from multiple different countries are somehow related.

Cars are cars, some specific Japanese makes and models are expensive to work on some are not, same goes for the other brands.

VW/Audi/Skoda (same company) are excellent for parts in NZ because we have multiple third party importers and VW is the second largest car manufacturer in the world so a huge volume of genuine and after market parts are made. Likewise the VW 6 and 4 Cylinder cars we are talking about here are well designed and pretty good to work on.

With regard to maintenance, (and this goes for whatever you buy) you are looking at an old car. Most old cars in that price range have major servicing that is due. I would suggest you put aside approx $2000 in your budget to bring whatever you buy right up to scratch, especially as you are going to be towing.

When I buy cars like that I do:
Cambelt (if applicable)
Waterpump
Thermostat
Plugs
Brake Fluid
Coolant
Oil
All Filters (air, cabin, oil, fuel)
Proper transmission service including new filter etc.

Then you know where you are at and can usually look foward to 4-5 years of basic cheap servicing before you need to go all out on things again.

By doing this its exceedingly rare for me to need to do any unexpected repairs to one of our vehicles, and we drive mostly Italian stuff which people like to do dances about and pretend are unreliable.

With regard to fuel consumption, for general running around I would actually expect it to be if anything slightly more thirsty than a 6 Cylinder 05 Falcon, I would be happy if I got 12l/100km over a tank out of one for regular use and more if towing. Others may be able to give you a more accurate idea as my exposure to the stagea has been limited, they just never appealed to me so I have not got too involved with them.

Anyhow my point is, personally I would be looking at the 2.8 and 3.0 V6 4WD Audi's as they are certainly not going to be any worse on gas and from personal experience with two 3.0 Audi Quattro's I would say the Audi over a tank is a little better than the Falcon. If I had to guess at some figures (and these will vary depending on use) over a tank if the Nissan did 12l/100km I would expect the falcon to do about 11.5l/100km and the Quattro maybe 11l/10km. Splitting hairs to a degree in actual costs,the point is more that you can get a nicer 4WD car without it costing more to run.

Its food for thought anyway, I think worth having a drive in some AudiA6 and A4 Avant Quattro's for comparison, they are really seriously nice vehicles. Not absolute rocket ships but a good step up on your Mazda and very capable even with a couple of jetski's on behind. Also, some A6's in your price range may even have trailer stability control (I forget when that came in exactly) which is a huge bonus if anything goes wrong, it will save your ass like nothing else can.

Best of luck with your search.

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 4:39am
+1
VTNZ and AA are just smoke and mirrors, you pay a huge amount of money to hear about dents and scratches as they fill in their neat little forms but enough about the important expensive bits.

A good mechanic will sake their head at little or no cost if something is obviously not up to scratch early on, saving you money to get a full check on one that is more suitable too.

charles.j, Jan 10, 5:17am
Thanks for all your input, greatly appreciated

a 3.0L is a little overkill for me though, the jetski doesn't weigh that much. I will consider Audi though. 10-11k is really my limit at the moment I'm afraid, and I worry that Audi's(being slightly more expensive) could be a worry if I stick to that price range. Or I could be wrong!

I've seen quite a nice stagea, however I'll have to get it checked out. Zero scratches on it, has only done 100,000ks. But! It does have the crazy japanese popup screen that someone here mentioned, and the chain has been replaced a long with a couple of other things associated with it(when it entered NZ). I'll have to get the paper work and see what the deal is though

Would it really be worse than a falcon! They have a 4.0L engine, surely Nissan aren't that bad!

charles.j, Jan 10, 5:22am
Ah. so I should be avoiding the 2.5L as they are direct injection!

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 5:40am
The CC rating means very little in this day and age with regard to power and economy. For example a 2004 2.0 FSI Golf will use less fuel than some little Japanese 1.3 litre automatics and in the very new stuff you can buy the almost commodore sized Passat wagon with just a little 1.2 litre engine and it pulls the big car along very well.

If you like the Stagea, buy it by all means, but do so with your eyes open with regard to economy etc.

Personally I would at least drive the Audi's so if nothing else you have a good yard stick.I am not quite sure why you would turn down the extra engine size and 4WD when its going to use less gas than the Stagea, but if you really wanted there are the 2.4 and 2.8 Audi's as well, but the fuel economy is much the same. Possibly the 1.8T might suit you, those perform much along the lines of the V6 Audi's but will give you a little bit better economy again.

The Audi Quattro's and 4WD Passat's of that model can be had from as little as 4K, the high spec 3.0 just tends to get a bit more money.

Best of luck with whatever you get.

desmodave, Jan 10, 5:44am
(and the chain has been replaced a long with a couple of other things associated with it(when it entered NZ)So its done 100,000 km and its already had a timing chain replaced .Sounds abit sussdont it .

rovercitroen, Jan 10, 5:46am
I can't comment on the fuel economy of my Stagea 350 as I have not tested it. It SEEMS good but I'm used to big Jags and BMWs so what seems good to me may be thirsty to you!

vtecintegra, Jan 10, 5:48am
I wouldn't necessarily avoid (indeed I drive a Skyline with the 3l version of the DI VQ) but do be aware it may require some maintenance down the track. TBH I'd be more concerned about the electrical issues that can crop up, fiddly stuff like the climate control that you really want to me working.

As for economy they're actually pretty good on gas for the size and level of performance you get, at least my experience.

BTW the 3l isn't really more expensive to buy than the 2.5, nor is it significantly thirstier (actually with the earlier 2.4 was a 4 speed auto while the 3l was a 5 which helped economy a bit)

thejazzpianoma, Jan 10, 6:21am
This might help,

Here are the consumption figures for the Stegia, you want to look under Stagea 2 (M35)
http://www.auto-data.net/en/!f=showSubModel&modeli_id=61 Here are the consumption figures for the larger A6 Quattro wagons, you want scroll down toA6 Avant (4B C5) http://www.auto-data.net/en/!f=showSubModel&modeli_id=511

Here they are for the medium sized Audi A4 Wagons
http://www.auto-data.net/en/!f=showSubModel&modeli_id=501

Sorry the site doesn't list the Falcon but a google should give you those figures too. To give you an idea, a base model BF has an official combined consumption figure of about 10.7l/100km, the 6 speed auto one is 10.4l/100km if its the BA's you are referring to they were a bit more thirsty again, not sure on their official figure.

austingtir, Jan 10, 6:27am
I owned a 350rx 4wd for a while and they are a great car.For the money imo there isnt really another wagon with similar specs that comes close.Whenyou start looking at the 2.5DI i feel you should start looking at other makes.The 2.5 turbo is far better than almost anything you will find also the only major issue is the turbos on them tend to give it up with higher k's or more boost.The 2.5 turbo m35 has ridiculous potential to make insane amounts of power if you tickle them up aswell.

charles.j, Jan 10, 6:28am
hmmm, I didn't think about the 4 vs 5 speed auto. I'll have to compare the fuel consumption of the 2.5 vs the 3.5

charles.j, Jan 10, 6:28am
Brilliant, thank you!