Has your vehicle been 'modified' AT ALL since new?

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ally-oop, Mar 31, 12:58am
A potentially HUGE balls-up for those owning a vehicle with relatively subtle change/s since new (for example, a larger engine OR manual gearbox-instead of it's factory automatic- to what it was factory fitted with (but still available in that model car when new, and all fitted using factory parts and fittings), or, say, brakes, anti-sway bar/s, etc, etc, that are different/later model/higher spec/factory option for the same model vehicle -and EVEN if, in effect, it's an upgrade/improvement to safety/handling, stopping, and fitted professionally, and didn't involve any welding/cutting, etc), and, once again is done with all factory fasteners, etc, is that while no one along the LVV/re-registration/WOF process may pick up on them, and therefor your vehicle is technically on the road completely legally in that sense, is potentially having a possibly extremely expensive insurance claim declined (imagine you're in a crash with a late model Porsche, there could EASILY be tens of thousands of dollars-or more- at stake) (because given how much detective work insurance companies sometimes do before honouring claims these days-indeed they employ people specifically as 'detectives' looking for technicalities to use as loopholes, esp with older/unusual cars/situations) (man, you should've seen the finetooth comb they put my friend's car through) (an unremarkable factory stock 6 cyl auto 4-door xc Falcon on s and still with it's original paint and hubcaps, in an unremarkable crash, and him in his 40s with a clean driving and insurance record), the insurance company could point to where you signed the policy stating that the car has no modifications (and this would be compounded if they could show that you know your way around a car/are an enthusiast of that model (and therefore would/should know that it wasn't 'factory' -esp seeing as they, themselves were able to establish/discover that fact). I'm sure that a lot reading this will think "that won't/wouldn't happen", however that would be naive/foolish these days, esp seeing as you have and pay insurance for the peace-of-mind that you wouldn't be paying off that Porsche for the rest of your days, should that happen-and it very easily could.
kazbanz, Mar 31, 1:38am
sorry alley oop but I stopped reading at the point you felt that fitting a larger engine or manual gearbox was a "subtle" change to a car.
On that basis what do you call a major modification?
seadubya, Mar 31, 1:51am
What about cars like Mustangs and Minis that had such a vast number of factory options/mods and very little paperwork to prove how yours left the factory?
pebbles61, Mar 31, 1:57am
Got paragraphs?

My understanding is that my insurance company won't cover the modifications i failed to notify them about, e.g. installed twin carbs or put on custom wheels.
skull, Mar 31, 1:59am
I stopped reading and started looking for full stops and paragraphs, I won't get fat on what I found. Too hard to read all that on one breath and a motor change is a bit more than subtle in my book.
pebbles61, Mar 31, 2:12am
Who would borrow money to buy a Porch?
ally-oop, Mar 31, 2:22am
I was meaning 'subtle' in the sense that it's, say, for example an xf falcon which was factory-fitted with a 3.3 litre 6 cyl is then fitted with a 4.1 litre xf falcon engine and it's not visually obvious.
Or, say, a factory automatic trans xf falcon was converted to manual trans, using ALL the factory parts off a manual car, which say was complete but taken off the road due to rust, so every last factory part was available, so therefor, once again, it was visually subtle.
I'd call the same car, if converted to v8 a major modification.
ally-oop, Mar 31, 2:24am
It's not an English lesson and I was assuming everyone can read. It's unambiguous.
squirrels, Mar 31, 2:44am
We had a new stereo put in and the insurance calls that a modification!
bwg11, Mar 31, 2:50am
Quite an issue in the classic mini community too. Engine capacity, brake upgrades, adjustable suspension, wheels for example. Technically, all must be certified, but how many WOF inspectors know what they are looking at and what was ex-factory? No disrespect intended.

AA Insurance treated me very fairly for limited mileage classic insurance, I had to produce a declaration from a Motor Engineer, that all listed modifications were done in a professional and workman-like manner.
kazbanz, Mar 31, 2:54am
Again that's not a subtle change.
Theres a lot of reasons that changes like that need to be inspected by more than a WOF inspector
ally-oop, Mar 31, 2:56am
That's interesting, and I guess, with so many different cars and options/specifications around-and the fact that it's been so long since some of these older cars were around in any numbers, it's probably a bit unfair to expect an inspector in 2015 to necessarily spot the difference between, say, mini options/original fitments.
What stipulation-if any-was put on who or what a 'Motor Engineer' is deemed to be?
I looked into limited mileage insurance, but it was just too limited (5000km from memory).
ally-oop, Mar 31, 2:57am
I said visually subtle (my bad- I should have included the word 'subtle' in my original post), anyway, in the case I put forward (a 4.1 litre xf engine in place of a 3.3 litre xf engine in an xf falcon), short of finding and reading the engine number, it would be visually identical-right down to the factory '3.3' sticker on the rocker cover, if one was inclined to swap it onto the 4.1 engine-it'd go straight on).
ally-oop, Mar 31, 3:00am
Why would changes like a 4.1 in place of a 3.3 in an xf need to be inspected by more than a WOF inspector? (given the 4.1 was put into the very same example of car at the factory with no changes to brakes etc, and the engine block is externally the same, so everything just bolts straight up).
pebbles61, Mar 31, 3:08am
Because I imagine they'd need someone with more knowledge on the matter than a WOF inspector who is looking out for basic safety items rather than being a walking encyclopedia about standard factory fittings/options for every car under the sun.

Like you say, if the engine was an option without needing new brakes etc, then getting it certified should (in theory at least) be a pretty straight forward matter. Will just cost you more $.
ally-oop, Mar 31, 3:21am
My point is about the not-at-all-unlikely situation, whereby for instance, someone (or their poorly-communicating/absent-mi-
nded mechanic) was to, say, put that 4.1 litre engine into that factory 3.3 litre xf falcon, and tell no one (least of all, a vehicle certifier/lvv outfit), and had the misfortune to (nothing to do with engine/speed/etc), end up needing to file a claim amounting to many tens of thousands of dollars, and some insurance company 'detective' establishes, via, say, engine number/code, it's been 'modified' (shock/horror!), and isn't declared on the policy, and can therefor decline the claim outright.
tamarillo, Mar 31, 3:27am
Re limited milage I insurance. A guy I know (not me really) insure his bike limited milage but has never ever been asked for an odo reading, and since it wasn't bought new they just don't know.
I think.
Of course I could never condone such behaviour.
kazbanz, Mar 31, 3:28am
and quite rightly so too.
Where do you draw the line?
The line has been very clearly drawn. ANY change of motor/gearbox from factory fitted to THAT car is a modification.
you don't just "accidently" put an engine of greater capacity in a vehicle.
pebbles61, Mar 31, 3:30am
Going from a 3.3L engine to a 4.1L engine is not a minor change, regardless of the fact that they came with said engines. I wouldn't expect my insurance to pay me out if I changed a 1500 Maxi to a 1750 one without bothering to tell them.

Now if I was to change the air filter to a pancake one etc, then yes I wouldn't bother to tell my insurance company.
kazbanz, Mar 31, 3:33am
I suspect the guy concerned might get in trouble if he made a claim--IF the bike is registered and has normal WOF checks done.
"HMMM so mr tamarillo you took our limited milage insurance. But sir your WOF records show the bike has travelled XXXXXX km from the day you insured it until last WOF . Unfortunately that's outside our definition of limited milage" --CLAINM DECLINED.
pebbles61, Mar 31, 3:36am
Pretty much, a lot easier to determine with a specified limit, but on my insurance there is no stated limit, but the car isn't to be a 'daily driver', so could be interesting should I ever make a claim.
ally-oop, Mar 31, 3:40am
I realise that the situation that i'm proposing (i.e having a claim declined in the described circumstances) would be VERY slim -mainly due to the lack of visual difference-, but it's just that there is SO much riding on it, and it would just take a bit of exploratory research/looking by some pedantic insurance company guy to render you effectively uninsured. Plus i'm considering the situation where someone doesn't want a big, modern, intrusive certification plate in their otherwise entirely visually virginal and nicely aged engine bay.
socram, Mar 31, 3:40am
That is as may be, but when it is so difficult to read, people just won't read it all the way through.

There is a very good reason why written English has a basic structure. Ignore it at your peril.
pebbles61, Mar 31, 3:45am
That's the price they have to pay to have a non-virginal\concours spec engine in their car. Surely they could tuck the plate somewhere harder to see? (I wouldn't know if you're allowed to do this).
ally-oop, Mar 31, 3:46am
Excellent good point kazbanz, all can seem very well and good if not needing to file a claim (after all, until then, all that's actually happening is your money is going into the insurance company's bank account, and they're hardly gonna investigate thet very deeply huh). Being covered by insurance and NOT being covered by insurance look, feel, and smell IDENTICAL until claim time -and you might just drive slightly more carefully if ya KNOW you're NOT insured.