Doing the shopping around thing and while its likely in my price range I'll it will be a private sale I am seeing a lot of cars being advertised just above my range.
Example only, if dealers are putting say Honda Fit's on their yards (there appear to be lots of them) at $5990, how much would you normally be trying to get them down too? If they are only going to drop a couple of hundred I will just cross them off the list, but if its likely I can negotiate a lot more then I can consider them.
PS, I am aware that many Hondas (civic/jazz/fit etc) have CVT issues, nothing in my price range is perfect so I'm looking out for it.
kazbanz,
May 4, 1:54am
Dinx -sorry to seem a sanctimonious pratt but this has been covered off many many times before. In a nutshell though you are asking the wrong question or questions. The correct question is -"What is a fair and reasonable price to pay for this vehicle.?" (or perhaps a bit less because I want a bargain) On that basis then the line of investigation is pretty easy. I genuinely feel that asking a generic "how much discount? " is um well pretty silly. .you really do need to put in some legwork to get the very best deal you can. first question would be how long has that particular vehicle been available? second When was the new model released? third Has the vehicle already been discounted? fourth-what spec level is it? Is it a "run of the mill" vehicle or something special. What are they selling for elsewhere? All of these factors need to be looked at before making an offer to buy. Basically ---there is NO generic answer but doing your research will give you the tools to make an educated offer
clark20,
May 4, 1:58am
For the $6000 you are covered by the consumers act so you are OK if in 2 months the gearbox fails (if not your fault), a dealer may be the best option. Think of it like insurance.
dinx,
May 4, 3:09am
Thanks kazbanz, I have already been considering all those factors. I am well aware that IF I buy from a dealer there is CGA protection which is why I have not written them off completely even if I pay slightly more, but its not easy to calculate how much more is normal or reasonable without negotiating.
I am also developing a pretty good appreciation for market value for same spec vehicles privately.
I appreciate you feel its the "wrong" question, I was only after a rough indication of what others have experienced as its been a long time since I purchased from a dealer.
As an example, I have been looking at the Gen 1 Fits, I know they are cheaper than the NZ new Jazz (warranty cover on that CVT in part), and I am also only looking at the baseline 1.3L minimum spec models and not the 1.5L AWD or high spec'd variant examples. But I've also seen some dealers puttng say roughly 2001-2004 on the yards at $4900, but some being as insane at $7900 for same age, specs and milage examples and I'm not bothering anymore with those using obviously greedy window pricing that is insanely beyong market values. Ironically a large yard budget dealer in my region has some of the most overpriced examples of any cars I've looked at even if vast majority of their stock is well under $10K, they had 1980's crap with coathangers and dash held together with duct tape wanting $4K
Many of the "discounted" from $8K cars "now $5900", are not discounted at all, they were overpriced.
Perhaps another question will be less offensive. If the market value privately on any given example is say $4500, how much extra is reasonable to pay for almost identical similar spec/age/milage/condition (all other factors equal) from a dealer cash sale so they won't make extra on finance either.
I don't mind paying a fair price, but I just can't afford to be paying a premium price either.
sheryl13,
May 4, 3:21am
yes im hearing you, i was looking around yesterday myself and taking a few for a test drive, i was told on no uncertain terms would there be a reduction in the price as the price is fixed. Basically if you dont like the price then dont buy it
dinx,
May 4, 3:37am
Problem is sheryl13, some dealers work on overpricing the window price deliberately and some are not negotiable, there is no neon sign that they will or won't negotiate and its a PITA to drive up to Upper Hutt to see a car and then find out they won't talk turkey because they care cagey on the phone.
Some of the yards have half a doz Fits on them at same price with a large variation in specs/milage/age. TBH I'm going to end up negotiating on the roughest exterior/higher milage/older ones to find the cheapest one as long as its also mechanically sound, I don't need pretty, just reliable and cost effective.
I've got another car privately I'm going to see soon that has lots of recent parking body scratches from owner who should have stopped driving. As long as thats all there is I can handle that for the right price and only cosmetic.
craigs_workshop,
May 5, 4:56am
you are a rare breed
the vast majority of consumers are all about the looks
dinx,
May 5, 5:07am
Looks don't get a car from A to B, the mechanics do that, it my budget I will have to compromise somewhere. I'll take the runt of the litter if its sound lol
kazbanz,
May 5, 6:56am
Dinx--to start with --in no way you are/will offend me by asking an honest question. :-) The point I was making was that you are asking the wrong question when asking how much discount. As I said the correct question is "whats a fair and reasonable price to pay for XXXXX?" Now we have the correct question you have a fantastic search engine right HERE. Have a look at the prices of Honda Fits (for example) for sale See what dealers and private are asking. You do have to factor in Year and Milage of course Then theres condition,. Youll get a pretty good indication of where the fair pricing is. Not being a smart alec but the cheapest ones are usually the cheapest for a reason. a good baseline is about 1/3 of the way from cheapest to most expensive.--Don't forget to take into account On road costs which are usually $300 ish. its worth putting a couple of auction cars on your watchlist to see what they sell for Im NOT for a second saying don't negotiate. what I am saying is once you know a fair price you'll then have a fair idea of what price a dealer is likely to negotiate to.
mals69,
May 5, 7:19am
Hold a bottle of brake fluid as you negotiate the deal .
mattnzw,
May 5, 9:13am
I would never pay the sticker price, and dealers don't expect you to either. Well they may have a small percentage that they would expect to pay it, which is why they have the sticker price on it. But the sticker price will usually represent a very healthy margin for them. IMO I would want to pay around midway between what they paid for it, vs what they are selling it for. But you obviously won't know what they paid for it, without inquiring at a few dealers as to what they would pay for a similar vehicle. But use private listings on trademe as a guide. But when I tried to sell a 2007 car, and was offer 12k for it, but the sticker price it was being sold for at other dealers was around 18k, that could be a potential 6k profit.
monsieurl,
May 5, 9:43am
Never pay dealer sticker price, unless its a super great deal (it won't be!) but don't get ambitious with how much you are going to get off, use proof like TM comparisons lack of service history etc tell them you're interested then throw 10-20% at them, they'll always say, no no no, that's the best price, so carry on looking, thank them and leave, they'll either stop you or you carry on looking and come back later if you find nothing else better, they will more than likely give you a discount if you say a similar one is X amount but i prefer this one because. just give them the idea that you will go elsewhere.
Thanks for the tips everyone. I know I'm frugal but there is a hell of a lot of shite to sift thru as well and a lot of private sales way overpriced too. Am also watching a few live turners auctions online to see how much interest & $$ they get as well. My watch list is about 3 pages and thats limiting to roomy boot subcompacts but not sedans.
My last car was 10 years old when we purchased with a tad over $100K for under $3k, sod all around at that price these days similar unless I look at 20 year old or 200K lol for same coin but I likely keep it till its scrap. At this rate I'm gonna end up with an old hyundai accent (again) and they are about as much fun as 1-ply paper but they the old ones are cheap lol.
grangies,
May 5, 5:32pm
Yeah. They know competition is tough, so screw em is much as you can.
Who cares if it's their only source of income for their family. Fark em eh? Minimum wage will do em.
Even though their yard is open 7 days a week they don't deserve to earn a decent living eh?
curlcrown,
May 5, 5:41pm
I always find threads like this very amusing, but not at all surprising. No wonder a lot of people don't like car dealers, it's because a lot of "buyers" behave like anchors when dealing with them.
deesmum,
May 5, 5:41pm
As kazbanz says theres no right answer. You have to do your homework if you want a good deal and be prepared to wait for a motivated seller. Another factor is how much value you put on your own time. Car hunting can be very time consuming. Sometimes if you are a busy person walking into a reputable dealer - ask around for recommendations - and just buying a car is an easy way to do it. Both dealers and private sellers can be greedy. Often a private seller expects just as much as a dealer for the same car and you have no comeback at all. One thing I like to do when negotiating on a car with a dealer is to look them straight in the eye and say "If I wanted to sell this exact car to YOU what would you give ME for it?" Their reactions are often interesting. If they are honest many thousand $ less is often the answer or else they avoid the question. I have no problem with a dealer making a profit but some truly take the piss in my experience.
kazbanz,
May 5, 6:12pm
Sorry guys but I genuinely don't understand that mentality. That's 1980's-1990's thinking. IMO when you are walking into a yard you should already have a really good idea what a car is worth by doing your research. So if its close to the cheapest one around and in good condition then likely it is already at "best price" -why walk away from that denarii?
oakie,
May 5, 6:42pm
Dealers are doing very nicely at present so most of them don't have to discount to a dope like you. reads like a dealer took you for a ride in the past. serves you right!
grangies,
May 5, 6:51pm
As a matter of fact, we have two cars. One we have owned for 12 years, and the other 8 years.
I'm in the auto trade, so for both vehicle I took several weeks to find. I searched for the best example going for the best price, and have done well out of them.
kazbanz,
May 5, 9:33pm
oakie--I think you missed the sarcastic tone in his "voice" have a reread of his post but put "year right" first. I mean what kind of idiot is stupid enough to work on average 12 hour days 7 days a week ?
dinx,
May 6, 2:29am
I don't want to screw a dealer out of making a living, but I'm not a cash cow either, feeding my family is just as important too. I will pay a fair price for their services not an inflated premium one which is why I object to practices such as inflating window stickers but that is reality and standard practice for many.
IF I knew window prices were always fair market value then I can save them a whole lotta time and haggle. I'm not working due to my health so I have time but not the $ to spend touring have the region looking at crap.
I have a healthy respect for the likes of Honda's policy in the past of fixed pricing on new from the days DP had a corporate car, its fair and honest but that's not how used usually works, I would be happy to use a dealer where prices are fixed if that was up front and they were fair. But that's unicorn land.
kazbanz,
May 6, 5:26am
dinx-Unfortunately the issue is that for everyone like you there are 100 people who take the attitude that no matter how cheap the car is there is always room to negotiate. You get very very tired of loosing sales because they expect some discount.
budgel,
May 6, 6:50am
I have always bought privately in the past (with one notable exception), but now with the new CGA rules applying I happily consider dealers for cars at the top of my price range.( The cheapie hacks are always going to be better value privately if you know what you are doing.) When looking for a replacement vehicle last year, it quickly became obvious that many private sellers have unrealistic price expectations.
As a cash buyer I did get annoyed by dealers trying to upsell me past my budget with some 'easy finance' deal.
Having a good understanding of the market sector you are looking at is vital, but it does take time and effort.
Dinx, whoever you end up buying from, I can see that you will get yourself a reasonable deal because, as evidenced by your postings here, you are doing your homework.
GOOD LUCK!
Do please tell us what the final outcome is!
mattnzw,
May 6, 7:03am
The problem is that most people know that you never pay sticker price on a car in NZ, so that is priced into the sticker price. It is the same thing when you go overseas to the markets, you always haggle on the price. With trademe, and book values available, it is now very easy to work out what a car is worth. If I was buying second hand I wouldn't buy from a dealer, I would second hand and a car with some manufacturers warranty remaining. Potentially you can save weeks of tax paid wages, by simple negotiation. It seems many NZers don't understand the concept though, and that is good for dealers. Dealers will take you to their manager to upsell you on other things like finance parking sensors, paint protectors, which many people buy because of the hard sell, where they make good margins. When buying a car, I recommend keeping it simple, and just buy the car, don't see what else they can throw in, nor do a tradein. You can purchase addons at a later date.
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