The law is the law. but you can attempt to bully and bluster and confuse ignorant people into believing they don't have the legal rights they do in fact have, as much as you like.
tigra,
Feb 3, 9:06pm
And there are plenty of sellers out there who firmly believe that consumers shouldn't have any rights at all
kazbanz,
Feb 3, 9:15pm
They are stupid because they are incomplete. They require clearcut definition from the dealers when no clearcut legal definitions are available. That leaves everything in the wooly world of "fair and reasonable" from which both the public and dealers are expected to work out what should and shouldn't be covered under the law.
rob_man,
Feb 3, 9:22pm
Consumers have always had the ultimate in rights, the right to decide whether or not to buy something that's for sale. If they are aware of their own shortcomings in the decision making department there are professional helpers that can go along to hold their hands.
kazbanz,
Feb 3, 9:30pm
But in MUCH greater numbers are the members of the public who feel that a 25 year old 300000km end of reasonable life vehicle should have a lifetime warranty-including against their own idiocy. AND when they make a mistake they won't admit to it instead go onto all forms of available media to becry how they were ripped off. Thus further requiring another layer of cotton wool wrapping. Don't get me wrong I'm all for consumer protection but equally Im trying very hard to teach my kids personal responsibility its really hard to do so when regardless of how badly you screw up theres a safety net to save you.--so no concequences for actions.
tgray,
Feb 3, 9:50pm
Dealers are very vulnerable under NZ law. Say they sell a $3000 20 year old manual Nissan Skyline with 200k to a young guy and he then takes it out on Friday night to town and starts showing off to his mates by doing burn outs, etc. Next day (after he sobers up) he realises the clutch is no good, so he calls back the dealer and says under the CGA, he is entitled to a new clutch as their expense. How does a dealer prove that he caused it? No pre purchase inspection was carried out, so it's simply his word against theirs as to the condition of the clutch at time of sale.
bwg11,
Feb 3, 9:52pm
^^^ Couldn't have put it better myself. Well said Kaz.
kazbanz,
Feb 3, 9:52pm
mate that ain't hard.---You can bet said idiot has 100 "friends" posting pictures of his activities on social media. -also a fried clutch isn't hard to detect.
callum.irvine,
Feb 3, 11:07pm
I think you will struggle to find a dealer selling a 20 year old, 200 on the clock, manual $3k skyline. They wouldn't go near it with a barge pole. Very likely exactly because of the reasons you have outlined.
mrfxit,
Feb 4, 8:04am
Yea just have a look & sniff under the driving wheel arches
franc123,
Feb 4, 8:40am
Exactly, some 'before' photographs of nice clean wheelarches without hunks of molten rubber embedded into them will soon solve that argument. A seller shouldn't have to resort to these tactics, but it would have to help when the kid shows up with his equally responsibility shy I Know My Rights father who pretends he has no idea of his offsprings after dark activities demanding a new clutch or a refund.
westwyn,
Feb 4, 9:21pm
Franc, a few months back I posted this EXACT scenario that had happened to me some years ago with a kid, a Nissan Silvia K'S Turbo, and his Dad.
Clearly, it's fine and dandy to lie when you're Joe Public, just not when you're a dealer.
texastwo,
Feb 5, 2:01am
We all know TM needs the cash but it wouldn't be hard for them to put in place stricter conditions about the cars they allow to be advertised.
kazbanz,
Feb 5, 5:33am
Regardless of any conscience (or lack of) issues with anything advertised on here the very LAST thing anyone needs is TM making sweeping generic "rules" The law is there for that purpose. Even that is an apsolute ass at times--Ie the emission law which would FAR more easily have been dealth with by having a rolling Year law. sorry dude but Ive been on the receiving end of some of TM's Ill thought out and conceived "rule" changes. The latest was the notion that ALL cars advertised had to have a REGO or VIN number. not one of the TM brightsparks could see the issue with that rule.--ohh and it was implemented at 4.30 on a Friday when EVERY one of the "boffins" had gone off for drinkies--away tiill Monday
nzangel1,
Feb 6, 3:07am
And I'm guessing in the future things won't get any better. restrictions create conflictions.
kazbanz,
Feb 6, 5:09am
ACTUALLY--Don't know if you remember me posting a year or two back. VERY angry dad came here with son. Dad started to rip strips off of me re rip off dealers etc.Once I got some sort of sense out of him it turned out son had failed his wof check due to bald rear tyres and made the mistake of trying to con money out of dad for a new set. Luckilly we keep pretty indepth records. Wof check sheet dug out. The car had new tyres at WOF time. Still dad didn't believe me"-I musta swapped the rears after the WOF" Dug deeper and found the receipt for the tyres.--So brand /model/size and vehicle fitted to. Took dad and son out to the car and showed them that they matched the tyres on the car.Then pointed out the rubber under the arches. STILL angry dad just walked up to son--smacked the back of his head climbed in the car and roared off. to this day I dunno who was trying to pull a con--son on dad or dad on me
franc123,
Feb 6, 5:43am
Who cares, I don't think you will be seeing either of them again somehow! They were both trying to make someone else pay for their poor behaviour. You proved that you are a straight guy and a record keeper and there was nothing wrong with what you sold them. You have to have a hard outer skin even if its mostly made of paper at times when in the used car game. Oh and yes I did vaguely remember your and westwyns descriptions of similar scenarios.
tgray,
Jul 4, 5:49pm
True. The confusion lies in the fact that 6 is the criteria used to determine whether someone is trading in cars, as that is the maximum amount a reasonable person would sell in a given year without being considered a dealer. In the real world, selling one car for a profit is not going to get you prosecuted, despite it being technically in breach of the law.
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