Ever priced a brand spanking new engine for your current car?
westwyn,
Aug 13, 3:43pm
The battery degradation issue mentioned by Stuff and attributed to Flip The Fleet has been resolved- it is a software issue, not a battery issue, and Nissan Japan have now supplied Nissan New Zealand with the required upgrade protocols for the 30kWh models. They are beginning the process of working through affected cars in New Zealand to remedy them.
,
Aug 13, 4:17pm
Batteries last for about 10 years generally, mine is now 7 years old and the car is free on operating cost savings alone already. The 30kwh battery issue was a software issue that cost $100 to fix.
Call me cynical but really it's all down to a software issue?
ianab,
Aug 14, 4:43am
Even though the 30 kWh model did have a software issue with "Faulty battery readings" that made it look like the battery was wearing out faster than it really was, the fact remains the Lithium batteries DO wear out with time and use. And I would say that anything over 10 years is realistically on borrowed time.
Now you could still use the argument that it would be worth fitting a new battery, because you then have a car that's good for another 10 years with relatively little maintenance.
But you still have to factor this into your decision to buy an older electric vehicle. I would think a 10 year old EV that still had it's original battery would have a very low resale value.
mr2stiff,
Aug 14, 4:52am
I'm hanging out for 2021 when those free loading electric sponges will have to pay RUC's along with their $9000 battery replacement.
harm_less,
Aug 14, 5:20am
By 2021 the price for a replacement Leaf battery will be closer to $2,000 and not $9K, and an extra 6c/km or so on an EV's running cost is pretty much negligible when it's costing us the equivalent of 25c/litre for our 'fuel' with few other maintenance expenses, and by then the price of petrol will be a lot higher than currently.
Combustion engine powered vehicles are looking at a lose-lose future - they will soon be history.
intrade,
Aug 14, 5:20am
the battery of a ev is the fuel tank . ever priced a fuel tank for a new car, nop they dont need one . while the engine of a ev is more reliable then a petrol one its not a if but when you need a new battery on a ev. and as i said the battery is 9 grand once before and then i got the usual morons claim i was wrong. i talk facts based on what i found to be true in the real phisical world. Not ficticious figures from lala land like some here do.
intrade,
Aug 14, 5:37am
The problem with internal combustion is that its 27% efficient for petrol and 34% for diesel and 54% for fixed rotation speed of bigger diesel. The ev future would be a 54% efficient diesel with electric motor and battery storage to switch in 0 tailpipe pollution mode with generator off in towns. The otto motor will be extinct but internal combustion will likely continue for a long time as there is no such thing as magic battery who last for ever it be oltimers that people will drive as they are the only ones who can be rapaired if they have 0 or close to 0 electronics as electronics is not viable to repair. Especially if you dont even get the circuit information. not to mention the 50h it would take to just test every thing on One of 100s of computers to try and repair it electric motors can be 98% efficient . So 54% and 98 would make a good combo. of about 70% total eficiancy Same problem exist if you repair something on a computer without replacing everything downstream also then you dont know how long it will last till its failed again As where in mechanicals you know if you put a new bolt you can see what else could be damaged. with electronics you cant unless you replace or test the lot of the other 100 componenets downstream and upstream of a fault. that is if you had the wiring circuit diagaramm and the test equipment . often only desoldering of components can test them also. Time and imense ammounts of time required to fix for sure a tini problem.
harm_less,
Aug 14, 5:58am
I can't decipher most of your post but I think the fact that an ICE vehicle has over 2,000 moving parts pretty much negates the maintenance advantage over an EV you're attempting to argue.
budgel,
Aug 14, 6:40am
It was proven to be an error in the readout that was showing less running time than was actually available.
nice_lady,
Aug 14, 6:57am
Yeah - nah ! You only need to google why batteries deteriorate. It's NOT 'all down to a software issue'.
tony9,
Aug 14, 7:01am
An ICE Engine has about 200 parts (Toyota Corolla parts list). So a comparable EV is going to have at least 1,00 parts. Actually how many cells in an EV (any one of which has at least 5 parts and failure of any one required maintenance). Between 600 to 3,000, as I understand it.
framtech,
Aug 14, 7:14am
why,, my third vehicle is a toyota 87 model = 31 years old, its done 400,000 klm and runs on the smell of an oily rag, Going on this battery crap it would cost 30,000 dollars in batteries over the same period and the crappy EV's don't have even half the range of the Toyota. The car is valued at 1500 dollars, so do the sums.
harm_less,
Aug 14, 8:13am
No MOVING parts in a battery so that's irrelevant to my earlier post.
200 parts is way too low!
Piston, 5 rings and spacers, gudgeon pin, 2 circlips, needle bearing ? (20 components?), conrod (8 components incl. nuts, washers, bearing shells). All x4, so over 150 bits there alone.
Onto the head components. There must be at least 200 parts in a cam chain alone! Down to the bottom end. main bearings (5, with a few dozen components each at least), oil pump, crankshaft, Trans/gearbox, driveshaft, fuel pump, etc, etc. And all of those components are not only moving but exposed to high temperatures to varying degrees.
A ICE is a high maintenance piece of equipment with lots of bits that wear out. An EV is basic in comparison and far closer in functionality to your cordless drill than an ICE.
Quibbling about the price of an EV battery swap should also be weighed against the total cost of parts, fluids and labour costs that an ICE requires over the same (10 year ?) period, and the discarded battery still has a substantial value for household energy (PV) storage.
tony9,
Aug 14, 8:40am
Not really high maintenance these days. Apart from a cam belt, most ICE's these days do at least 30-50 years and over 300,000 Km without wearing out.
Everytime a cell goes through a charge-discharge cycle it involves a chemical transformation. This inevitably causes a mass/density change with slight contraction and expansion, let alone the thermal cycling. This is why cells decline and fail. We know engines now last for the life of the car (with few exceptions). We also know that batteries will need replacing, likely at least 3 times over a comparable distance.
And lets not think of EV motor bearings, which don't have a constant supply of fresh, filtered and cooling oil running through them. Ten years is pushing it for industrial bearings in a similar situation.
the-lada-dude,
Aug 14, 10:16am
how many parts in a single cyl 125cc J.A.P 2 stroke . you could get away with 4 but 8 would be a better bet
s_nz,
Aug 14, 10:45am
OP's artical is from back in May, There has been some movement on the 30kWh leaf battery pack since then, with new software having been made available to resolve under-reporting of 30kWh pack state of health.
As a general statement regarding the older leaf, it seems a 2011 leaf sells for $11,000 - $15,000. Flick the fleet data shows that median battery state of health for these cars is 74%. This means if the car started with a 117km range, a median 2011 leaf would be now down to a 86km range.
If we assume the decay rate is linear, then we would expect the range of the car to be down to 56km in another 7 years.
It appears that people are living with this reduced range, and it is being reflected in the cheap prices of the cars. I don't see people lining up to put new packs in their cars. Capability existing in NZ to replace individual Nissan leaf battery cells if a single cell dies.
That said, the 2017 price of a new 24kWh pack in japan is 300,000 yen (NZD4000) with return of old pack, and one would expect that to come down over time. Perhaps an aftermarket for replacement Nissan leaf battery packs will surface too. Generally Branded parts cost heaps more than aftermarket ones.
Also note that most other brands of electric vehicle have actively cooled battery packs and are showing longer life what we have been seeing out of Nissan leafs. (it sounds like the 2019 60kWh leaf will be getting battery pack cooling too.)
richardmayes,
Aug 14, 12:24pm
Industrial bearings start up at 7:30am and run continually until 4:30pm, all day every day though.
sw20,
Aug 14, 12:46pm
OP is a known troll, who hits and runs with posts.
a.woodrow,
Aug 14, 2:15pm
do the sums. well 400,000km serviced every 10k is 40 services. A standard service probably averages out about $100 a pop so theres $4000, plus 4x cambelts so probably another grand there. Now lets look at fuel, I have had a couple of 80's corollas and fuel use was around 7-8L/100km so even at 7l that's 28,000L or so of fuel, around $60,000 in todays money (granted fuel has been cheaper going back but then so has power).
Not considering all the other misc stuff like brake pads, exhaust work, radiator/coolant work, clutchs etc you are still looking at a considerable outlay in running costs.
EV battery replacement is not a common thing yet but prices will come down until they are a relatively minor inconvenience no worse than getting a cambelt replaced in a modern vehicle
harm_less,
Aug 14, 2:44pm
Looks like you've got the sums right. We've had our 2012 Leaf for 4 years now, travelled over 40,000km in it and saved over $15K in 'fuel' and maintenance over that time. In another 3 or 4 years a battery replacement will be well and truly offset by the savings and the car will virtually be free.
This article gives some interesting statistics: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45084671 Note: "Meanwhile, prices for a rechargeable lithium ion battery fell below $200 per kilowatt-hour this year for the first time, says Sarwant Singh, head of the transport team at consultancy Frost & Sullivan. That's down from $750 in 2010.
"The forecast is they'll fall below $100 in the next five years," says Mr Singh. "[Then] they become really attractive, and below $80, you're really killing the gasoline engine." "
loud_37,
Aug 14, 3:58pm
Hope its better than a cordless drill, I need to replace these every year.
harm_less,
Aug 14, 4:04pm
EV or drill, depends what you pay for them and how you treat 'em.
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