I've had Leafs for just under three years now, both my wife and I have one, I also had one as a former company car. Since we've had them we've done 116,000km in them, the highest mileage in a 2011 Gen 1 24kw car that cost $12k to buy. We both do around 100km per day to work and back in them, they cost almost nothing to run (we spend more on coffee than fuel in a week) and they require almost no maintenance (air in the tyre, washer fluid).
Electric motors last a VERY long time, I regularly sell machines that have been running almost continuously for 50 odd years.
Sure some ICE motors are fairly reliable, I have a Terranno with 400,000km and have owned a Camry with 360,000km but they only last this long with regular maintenance and attention. Electric motors are basically a device you forget, there is literally nothing you can service on a Leaf motor, bearing failure might be a problem when you get into the millions of kilometers, time will tell. But there are plenty of Leafs with hundreds of thousands of km's that are still going strong.
Sure the current generation of batteries will wear out in time, but the savings on operating cost more than make up for the replacement battery costs. Even here in Christchurch you can get your battery replaced with a high state of health used battery for $4500 that should see you up and running for many years to come.
You can't get them here yet, but it's only a matter of time.
s_nz,
Aug 14, 9:30pm
Generally the automotive grade packs are far more looked after than power tool packs. They always have a battery management system to level individual cells, and designate the most damaging (very high and very low charge) as un-usable, in order to protect from damage in that state. Higher end electric vehicles (basically everything but the leaf) also have active thermal management.
Internationally the only places that have had big issues with nissan leaf batteries degrading super fast are places with extreme hot weather (Arizona etc.)
framtech,
Aug 14, 11:58pm
Need to pull you up on some of this, My Car is still using the original exhaust, Its only needed 3 cambelts , Don't pay to get it serviced I DIY, Its only had one clutch and that cost 350.00, you forget that EV's have brake pads and need warrants and servicing, A high part of the cost of fuel is Tax, therefore turn that 60,000.00 into less than 30,000 as EV vehicles are going to attract the same taxes to pay for roads in the future, The cost of electricity will go up at charging stations and charging meters will be required on home supplies (like HWC meters) once EV's take over from oil. This is a given. Also you have not noted the cost of the vehicle, whats a leaf worth? I know a Tesla is 150,000.00, my car I paid 500.00 dollars for years ago and is now worth 1500.00, also remember the Toyota 1000cc has a curb weight of 650kg, seats 5, has a range of over 500 klm a tank full.
,
Aug 15, 7:03am
Need to pull you up on some numbers here, The high part of the fuel is the price of the fuel you pay at the pump and that's only going to get more expensive. Its very unlikely that any government is going to decrease the price of operating a petrol vehicle relative to operating an EV, all current parties have publically stated this. When not driving around in a limo even Simon Bridges drives an EV. I don't think its possible to predict where the tax on either fuel will go at this point. It's also likely that things like battery replacements will get cheaper and easier to obtain as EVs become more common. But for this exercise lets just use the current real numbers from today.
I don't think a $500 crapper can't really be compared to a Tesla and more than it can to a Ferrari so lets forget purchase price.
So the current fuel price sits at $2.299 per litre for 91 here in Canterbury, so for 350,000 km if you have a fairly efficient car that does 8 litres per 100km your going to use 28000 litres and at current fuel cost it's going to cost you $64,372. If you want your vehicle to last thing long you will need to service it, so oil changes will be critical. I do mine on my high mileage truck every 10000km. We'll use cheap oil so $35 per 4 litre so $1225 in oil and and $700 in $20 filters. Personally on my vehicle in that time I've done the waterpump, cooling system, started motor, altenator, injector pump and transmisson so you have to be very lucky with an ICE for fuel and oil only costs to that mileage.
So at current electricity prices charging at night you should be able to do $2 per 100km (I do a bit better than this) so you'll be at $7000 in electricity. You will have done one coolant and diff oil change. So the Leaf owner is going to have nearly $59k left over for battery replacements, I think they'll probably get by? The $500 crapper is looking like an expensive option for a daily driver.
nice_lady,
Aug 15, 7:50am
Problem with batteries is that they need to get the tech sorted out FAST if these EV's are going to progress. Apparently from what I read recently the Lithium Ion batteries use materials which we'll run out of in 20 years at best. So someone somewhere needs to invent some other tech soon. Yes they're looking at it but the only reasonable viable alternatives are not great so far. Also unless we recycle batteries they're going to be just another major environmental hazard sooner rather than later. Perhaps Hydrogen driven vehicles offer an excellent alternative but again tech needs to speed up a bit on those.
bigfatmat1,
Aug 15, 7:55am
You cannot purchase 30kw batteries new in NZ
harm_less,
Aug 15, 8:58am
That's not surprising considering Nissan NZ's disinterest in marketing the Leaf here. Good thing then that the secondhand importers are filling the demand for cars and parts support.
,
Aug 15, 10:33am
That's 20 years with existing extraction methods, not total available lithium. Also all major EV manufacturers already offer recycling for thier batteries with Nissan already offering refurbished batteries, so even better than recycling. This is a non issue, certainly compared to the catastrophic effects of continuing to burn fossil fuels for transport as we currently are.
mals69,
Aug 16, 10:04pm
Dave at EV City Ch-Ch showed me spy reports where batteries had been charged hundreds of times on fast chargers and SOH was still high. Not as cut and dry as stuff article re fast charging, probably comes down more to how heavy your right foot is .
cassina1,
Aug 16, 11:37pm
There are reports that Toyota and Hyundai are testing hydrogen powered cars in Aust. They fill quicky and have the same or more range as a petrol car before refilling. Maybe hydrogen power will make both electric and petrol powered vehicles obsolete. They would possibly not be the safest vehicles in a crash though.
,
Aug 17, 6:12am
Hydrogen powered cars are just electric cars with an extra step. They take hydrogen run it through a fuel cell to convert it to electricity to run an electric motor to drive the car. They currently require a lot more electricity to run (as you have to make the hydrogen), the hydrogen is difficult to store and transport. They remove one of the greatest benefits of having an EV, you can plug it in the wall and charge it up from any plug point, rather than having to go and buy fuel from a station. If your really keen you can even generate the fuel (electricity) yourself, but with hydrogen not so much.
With EVs with hundreds of kilometers of range available now, there's no real benefit to hydrogen except in some fringe cases, and lots of drawbacks.
delerium1,
Aug 17, 6:47am
Except for the comparison of refilling vs charging times. And generated waste. You know. And how the national grid can't generate or distribute electricity for all cars to be electricit. Those little issues.
,
Aug 17, 8:23am
Except we know the power grid can take it, this has been extensively covered by the power companies, the government and the universities. Here's a couple of videos for you watch about this very topic in New Zealand From Orion the Christchurch lines company https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MlHk2NpCpk From the University of Canterbury https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gRS7PK6TP0&t=1149s
You require much more electricity to create hydrogen to run vehicles than you do just to run your EVs directly on electricity. You also need to create a whole new infrastructure filling stations, hydrogen transportation and storage etc etc. This is MUCH more expensive and difficult than just upgrading the electricity network we already have.
The latest generation of fast chargers will give 200km of range in 10 minutes, so having to stop for 20 minutes every 400km isn't really a huge issue. Especially when you only have to do this when your traveling more than 400km at a time, with 99% of your charging being done at home, this is a non issue.
apollo11,
Aug 17, 9:15am
We would be far better off increasing the capacity of the grid than spending enormous sums of money on brand new hydrogen infrastructure. New battery tech which will start filtering through in the next five years will sort out some of the negatives of lithium ion cells.
rayonline_tm,
Aug 17, 11:31am
With a petrol car, looked after you can use the same engine for 20yrs or more quite easily. Yes you pay petrol. The average person might spend $2,500 PA on it. I ran some maths and assuming you can use the EV car for 10yrs and OK you get that expensive battery you still gain something with an EV car but not much. This is also factoring in that EV cars requires less other maintenance like oils and belts.
I am sure EV cars will get better and cheaper but there is a way to go still and I think unlike smartphones and LCD digital TV. With a car it looks like the same thing and it does the same thing. A smartphone has so much more functionality than a dumb-phone. A digital TV was good b/c digital Freeview replaced analogue TV so it was either the case you spent $200 for a Freeview box to continue watching TV on a old TV or just spend a bit more for a LCD TV that has the Freeview tuner builtin and you get a newer TV, slimmer, sexier, higher definition and other additional functions.
Charging shouldn't be an issue either since EV stations can be increased. Commercial carparks and apartment carparks they can install charging points that the driver pays for. Could even make business sense for the carpark owners / landlords.
,
Aug 17, 11:45am
Electric motors are far more reliable and simple than petrol engines. With only one moving part, no heat, few fluids and transmissions with only a few cogs, they will last much much longer than petrol engines with thousands of moving parts and large amounts of heat to dissipate. There are electric motors that have been running day and night for 50 years on industrial machinery. With battery swaps coming down to only a few thousand dollars every 10 years or so even with current technology, there is no reason why a vehicle like a Nissan Leaf shouldn't do millions of kilometers with only components like suspension being replaced. Mechanically they'll last much longer than the equivalent petrol vehicle.
nzoomed,
Aug 17, 12:27pm
The Nissan leaf is a pretty crappy EV, albeit popular its range is only 135km! Only real use is a shopping basket or your every day commute to work and around town and thats about it.
The tesla model 3 standard version is 350KM and the long range version is 500km
And ad far as battery life goes, they are now expecting the current batteries could last up to 15-20 years
rayonline_tm,
Aug 17, 12:43pm
From a users and a financial point of view. Most people already have petrol cars now that is working, It might not be financially wise to just to go out today, sell the petrol car for whatever it is worth and pick up a 2nd hand EV car.
Let's say the person maintains the petrol car and pay whatever maintenance and do it to the handbook. Person doesn't get bored of it, keeps the same car for 20yrs. They do the same with a EV car. You save a lot of petrol yes, you also save on maintenance; but for what the battery cost these days, financially it is is less with a EV car but not that much lesser. The battery is likely to get cheaper over time though but for what it is right now, EV cars are not significantly cheaper.
harm_less,
Aug 17, 12:53pm
135km range fot the Gen 1 Leaf. The coming 40kWh & 60kWh versions of the latest model Leaf have ranges of 240km & 378km respectively.
The range of current and expected EVs in NZ is growing from just a Leaf vs. Tesla comparison would suggest. https://buyersguide.ecotricity.nz/ This is but a few of what is coming up. Ford for example plan to have at least 13 electric models by the end of the decade.
rayonline_tm,
Aug 17, 12:54pm
People already struggle with a $800 cambelt job with a petrol car. Could be challenging for many when they find that they need a few thousand dollar battery replacement.
remmers,
Aug 17, 1:08pm
It is a common misconception that the battery will fail one morning in 10 years time and that the car becomes immobile.
The battery looses its capacity to hold charge gradually, in 10 years time a 40kWh battery may only have 30kWh capacity but the car is still 100% serviceable, just needs charging more often to go the same distance as when it was new.
apollo11,
Aug 17, 2:23pm
Solid state cells could possibly sort out any longevity questions. Some test cells have been cycled 23000 times, a useful lifespan of 63 years if charged and discharged every day.
,
Aug 17, 2:23pm
It depends on your commuting distance, for me my EV was free on operating costs alone after only 2.5 years, so it makes excellent financial sense. If you only drive a short distance each day not so much.
Yes, we just do 7,000km per year. The other car here does 12,000km per year.
EV cars, yes less maintenance, gets better and gets cheaper over time. Most people still are unlikely to carry on using cars for 20+ years from their ownership.
Re: batteries there will be a point in time when it gets so bad it has to be charged daily or every 2nd day and some people might get frustrated with that.
If most cars available are EV and we have the infrastructure, the average motorist would be fine with that when the time comes to change cars. For now thou, when people already own drivable petrol cars and there are still plenty available new or used .
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