So Kaz what happens when your battery SOH falls to a low level - I thought it would still run just on the petrol engine . but if I am reading your reply correct it goes into 'limp home mode'. is this correct ? Suspect the Prius that Jacinda2059 had a battery replacement was only a hybrid and not a plug in .
I am guessing he is quoting a story he read which appeared in the AA Magazine, and he doesn’t actually own a PHEV Outlander? I may be wrong, just the way I read his post.
bryshaw,
Nov 9, 11:08pm
Buyer beware, you get caught and you pay the price.
s_nz,
Nov 10, 12:32am
In short, you can keep using an outlander PHEV with a degraded battery (with lesser all electric range of course)
For clarity, the limp mode described will be what is more commonly referred to turtle mode (Toyota hybrids have a turtle symbol on the dash when that mode comes on).
All hybrids can output more power than the petrol engine can make on it's own. This typically allows engines to be configured for efficiency at the expense of peak power (i.e. downsizing, running Atkinson cycle etc). The electric motors & battery contribute to mean the car still has the acceleration expected by today car buyers. In some cases like my hybrid the standard petrol engine is used, and the hybrid system simply increases peak power.
The current (2.4L) outlander PHEV has a max power of 176kW. The 2.4L petrol engine is tuned to produce a max of 94kW at 4,500 RPM. in hybrid mode, if more than 94kW is demanded, the car will discharge the battery to provide the excess. Once the battery is flat, it can't contribute anymore so the car will enter trutle mode, and the power available to the driver will drop from 176kW to 94kW. Still more car power than many cars on the road, but less than what the driver expects. If some less onerous driving is done (say flat roads or downhill), the car will charge it's battery up again to be ready for the next mountain climb.
Pritty much all plug in hybrids have a mode like "Hold", "Charge", "Mountain" etc. which maintains a high state of charge in the battery, to ensure a large buffer if high power is required for an extended time like a mountain climb. (best practice is to use this mode for all long trips and turn it off once you get to your electric range from your destination). Of course if your case has a 50% health battery, the buffer would be 50% of that of a new car.
It is likely that the AA peice refereed to the older 2.0L out-lander PHEV with a 87kW engine. It is not specified if the driver used charge mode, or was doing something like towing, or had a loaded roof rack that would increase energy demand.
Generally NZ with it's relatively low speed limit isn't especially demanding on hybrid cars compared to Europe and the USA. That said I know that the Napier / Taupo road is one of the more demanding in the country.
intrade,
Nov 10, 8:58am
the issue is nz is hilly as f. k compaird to country of knotheads in california. moisture also dont exactly helps the onehanglow electronicals and corner cutting budget engeneering. Only advantage we have is no salt splashing under cars only lime from 3world way of building roads.
vtecintegra,
Nov 10, 10:28am
Hills are good for hybrids as they give potential for regen going back down.
alowishes,
Nov 10, 10:31am
Whew, those replacement batteries are up there in price!
(I bought a new battery for the mrs car on Sunday, cost $120 and if it lasts another 5 years past guarantee time I wouldn’t be surprised i (it has 40 month guarantee) Old battery was 6+ years old and was still starting the car but didn’t have much reserve, too many times flattened when ‘somebody’ forgot to turn off the headlights.
yz490,
Nov 10, 10:40am
With the fairgo thing last night i thought the outcome was--man testing the battery at the end said its good for ages yet at about 63%, but i'm sure the lady said it'd got so bad that a trip to the shops stuffed it. So is it or isn't it [on the way out]. She seemed happy after that diagnosis. Think it was a Leaf.
A 2011 leaf with a new battery has 117km of epa rated range. if the battery is down to 60% state of health, the range no is 117x0.60 = 70km. Take off say 20km for a safety margin, and you have 50km usable range. Obviously it is a pure city / commuter car at this point. In pre-2013 leaf's Nissan recommended only charging to 80% on a daily basis to protect the battery. at 80% change the 70km of range drops to 56km. Take off a 20km safety margin, and usable range is only 36km if you operate the car in this way.
2013 and prior leaf's loose roughly 4-5 percentage points of battery health a year. 2014 and latter leaf's use roughly 3 per year (was a battery chemistry change.
Latest leaf (new) has a 384km range, so there are options for long range, but they do cost more $$.
vtecintegra,
Nov 10, 12:19pm
I don't think charging to 100% instead of 80% makes a great deal of difference so long as you don't let the car sit at a high state of charge for an extended period of time. Remember deeply discharging the battery isn't ideal either so going 100-30 daily is probably a better idea than 80-10 (and less stress inducing too)
serf407,
Nov 10, 5:59pm
It should be possible to link the battery data back to a vehicle manufacturer's battery database. Sort of like an e-road.
Even some of the Tesla battery packs have a rapid dropoff. I wonder how well a 'hoon driver index/ rating' to EV battery pack longevity graph is correlated? i.e the higher the hoon index the shorter the battery life.
a lot like the $hitbox leaf dont have cooling nor propper battery monitoring= when one cell goes the whole battery is drained of energy by the one cell. as where tesla is one of the best 14 banks with each cell cooled and monitored can turn banks off if they develop faulty cells.
lythande1,
Nov 10, 7:19pm
Yep, most people haven't got a clue. They're so conned into the "save the planet" spiel, although save it from what I don't know. The planet can manage just fine without us, it did before. Save ourselves perhaps, well not breeding like flies might help more. Not all rush to drive lithium cars. and all the dirty mining crap that goes with that, and dumping of old batteries, and who the hell can afford that? My cars have cost around $3K. Never mind a part.
tygertung,
Nov 11, 6:08am
Better to ride electric bikes as you don't need so much batteries.
bitsnpieces2020,
Nov 11, 8:19am
EV's are looking like the shortest lifespan vehicles humanity has ever built. Despite the intent, its obvious they are only increasing the rate of waste, and pollution we are generating
strobo,
Nov 11, 8:45am
You'd be right . i had envisaged the cost increases way back,no way 30k for a small vehicle when the sales people sell the tale between $6,000-$8000 to replace.A 5ton truck now is quoted around $30,000 to replace when due with a 5year warranty,limited ks !?! At that time when due the owner will be asking same question as kabanz. I wouldv'e thought a smaller vehicle should be 1/2 that cost at least.so on that premise a small truck battery replacement will now be up around $60,000 to replace when due.The bigger they are the more they cost .but the argument will always be the cost is offset by what the cost would be otherwise using petrol or diesel .Just false economy all round really.There is always diesel about at per $ litre to replace in keeping the wheels turning!Poor kabanz #2 is at a realization of his purchase.
strobo,
Nov 11, 9:17am
Not being "caught out" but being mislead by deception and lied to by manufacturers and sales people of ev's.The new owner is being faced with the real costs of so called saving the planet and saving some money on running costs ,cough,cough excuse me.The new owners are certainly not making money are they ! Just a trendy gimmick people can buy into I guess and will prove its worthlessness over time.when the batteries are dead flat and wont hold a recharge lol
gazzat22,
Nov 11, 9:31am
I take this as a word of warning/caution not hate to those considering buying an EV or PHEV that saving the planet comes at a cost.This "bridge" has collapsed when the buyer is in the middle of it.
cjohnw,
Nov 11, 9:55am
I think if you re-read his post you will see he is quoting an AA magazine article and he does not own said vehicle. That is the way I read it anyway.
gazzat22,
Nov 11, 10:27am
Me too +1
tygertung,
Nov 11, 12:33pm
The issue with electric cars is that because they are so heavy, most of the energy goes into moving the car. Very little goes into the moving the load. Therefore, a lot of batteries are required.
This, however is the case for all cars, electric or not. the vehicle weight to load ratio is poor.
An electric bike has a better vehicle weight to load ratio.
marmar1,
Nov 11, 12:49pm
But what happens if you have a Fatty riding the bike?
tygertung,
Nov 11, 1:04pm
Even better vehicle weight to load ratio!
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