O.K so I have to move an unlicensed un WOF'd vehicle today for the purposes of obtaining a W.O.F. Having been caught out with this before and been fined I thought I would ring the local Police and advise them of my intentions. The theory being that I would then be covered if I got stopped.
When I rang though I was advised by them noting my intentions would make no difference I would still be fined and "the vehicle should not be on the road". I advised them of the law which states I AM allowed to drive an unlicensed and un-wof'd vehicle on the road "for the purposes of obtaining a WOF".
To this they just repeated the same "we can note it but it makes no difference". When asked what I should do then to make sure I was covered they advised that I would be given an opportunity to get a WOF/Vehicle License before I would be fined. this has not been my experience in past.
Why does this have to be so hard! I am trying to do the right thing here, and I think its pathetic if I have to have the vehicle towed when the law says I am allowed to drive it.
Its disappointing that the Police have geared things so good people can be ticketed when they are operating within the law.
crzyhrse,
Nov 6, 10:21pm
It's because they're unthinking drones, just the way the government likes its enforcers.
crzyhrse,
Nov 6, 10:24pm
Now just to clarify, the Police do not 'fine' you. They issue you an infringement offence notice. You can elect to either pay the infringement fee or defend the allegation. If you have the evidence that you were 'operating the motor vehicle solely for the purpose of bring it into compliance and it was safe to do so' and thus in compliance with the law it should be an easy but inconvenient win. That's if you get caught, anyway.
smac,
Nov 6, 10:28pm
The fact you can be ticketed doesn't mean you are guilty. Just means a cop has issued you a ticket for some reason. You have a complete defence, assuming you are booked in and the WoF place corroborates your story.
People will say a cop shouldn't be able to issue you a ticket if you are within the rules, but that is overly idealistic and basically can't work. It means the cop is then judge and jury. Guess which is worse!SO yes the cop should have reasonable grounds to suspect you are outside the rules.but as crsyhrse will point out that is not always the case unfortunately.
What is it about this vehicle that makes you so sure you're going to getpulled over! Why would they look twice at it!
smac,
Nov 6, 10:31pm
The clincher is, if the vehicle is not up to scratch then the defence doesn't apply to you.
Catch 22 - carry on after the ticket and go for the WoF - but if you fail on a safety matter the ticket sticks.
Or, don't go for the WOF, but then the cop will argue you were never going for one so the ticket sticks.
So if your paranoid about getting stopped (!), make really sure it's up to scratch before hitting the road.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 10:34pm
The wouldn't look twice at my vehicle its a beige on beige wagon. Its just a case of once bitten twice shy and Tauranga is well known for its checkpoints.
I disagree in that there should be a way of getting around this. Expecting every vehicle operating under this part of the law to be fined and then the owner having to take the time to defend it is ridiculousness.
There is no reason why such a trip could not be logged automatically online if need be. But really this would all be a non-issue if the NZ Police were sensible and operated under the guise of common sense.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 10:37pm
Quite right about the allegation part, I agree. The only catch is you have to wary of the "traps" with defending the allegation and like you say its a hassle. By "traps" I mean if you send your letter of defense in during the last 10 days or so they have a nasty habit of "not arriving on time" apparently the NZ post system can take up to 10 days to deliver a letter.
Also, you can't courier or send a registered letter to their address and there is no easy way of checking your letter has arrived.
If you letter is deemed not to have arrived on time you also then have no further recourse other than to pay the fine. You cannot request a court date or anything, the system is geared to trap you.
Of course you can avoid this by sending your letter in really early, but human nature means that a good proportion of defenses are no doubt scrapped in this manner. Plus you need to be aware that the letters mysteriously take longer to get to that address to know to avoid the issue.
smac,
Nov 6, 10:40pm
That's not been my experience. You've struck the wrong guy(s) on the wrong day.
For every story somebody has about a cop being unfairly harsh or just plain stupid, there's another one of people talking their way out of stuff they should have been ticketed for (myself and friends included).
smac,
Nov 6, 10:42pm
OK now you're stetching it."they have a nasty habit of "not arriving on time" apparently ".how many cases are you personally aware of!! If you're that paranoid, take the letter to your local cop shop and fax it from there.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 10:44pm
Car is up to scratch with one exception being the airbag light which needs to be reset which will be done at the WOF garage, thats part of the reason for my concern in that it has to travel a bit further to get to the garage with the appropriate tool.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 10:47pm
Thats the thing though, you can only post, no fax, no email, no registered mail, no courier, no dropping it off in person.
As for "stretching it" I was as surprised as you. However the "standard letter" you receive when your defense does not arrive on time actually states that it can take "up to 10 working days" for a letter to arrive. That should tell you something for starters.
Being able to take the letter to your Police station to be faxed would be absolutely fine with me, if only you could do that.
All I want is fair and reasonable. If the IRD work on the "postal acceptance rule" I don't see why the Police can't. Likewise you can call, fax and email the IRD.
If we are expected to go through the hoops of defending ourselves when we are operating within the law things should at least be fair and reasonable with regard to avenues of communication.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 10:53pm
I agree, I had a great experience with a local officer at the scene of an accident recently. However it should not be down to "luck of the draw" who you get thats my issue in a nutshell really.
I am not asking for anything unreasonable or unworkable here, simply being able to ring or email and advise of a vehicle being used and having the officer check before issuing the fine would be more than O.K with me. It shouldn't create extra workload overall either if it were managed correctly.
crzyhrse,
Nov 6, 10:57pm
Perhaps because the Police motto isn't "It's our job to be fair"!
fryan1962,
Nov 6, 11:04pm
over the top but I think you can get a permit to drive, not sure of rules in nz but you can in oz, also not sure of cost
also I do not agree that if you were driving to get w,o,f got caught then continued and failed you would be in trouble. as I would say it is your intent to pass
richardmayes,
Nov 6, 11:07pm
If a cop stops you, just drop my name. You'll be fine.
smac,
Nov 6, 11:08pm
You really are expecting a major commitment to manage something that's really not even a blip on the radar though. SO everybody about to take an un-wof'd car on the road could just flick an email or call through.and they're covered! Of course there'd be ways to manage the abusers.but guess what, that would cost.This is probably gonna sound absurd to you but throwing process and rules at minority problems are why we have dog muzzle/banning laws, cycle helmets laws, 6 monthly WoFs, noise control laws.the list goes on and on.
Don't get me wrong, I agree it shouldn't be the luck of the draw or depend on what mood the cop is in or whether he got any lately.but I don't think more bureaucracy is the answer.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 11:16pm
I couldn't agree more about keeping the bureaucratic nonsense to a minimum, the cost to our country through trying to replace common sense with beurocracy is huge. I was just putting it out there as something that "fits" the current system. It would also be easy enough to just add a tick box to the online WOF system so you could ask your garage to load it as a pending inspection when you book in. Not perfect, and it wouldn't cover all cases but it would solve the majority.
Ultimately you are right though, if you could just rely on the common sense of the Police when you get pulled over it would be so much easier.
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 11:17pm
Fixed it for you richard.
poppajn,
Nov 6, 11:17pm
I may be wrong, but thought that as long as you had a booking then you were able to drive to your issueing agent. Although obvisly nota great distance
thejazzpianoma,
Nov 6, 11:20pm
Yes, that's the point. The law says its perfectly legal for you to drive a car on the road that's unlicensed and un-wof'd for the purposes of obtaining a WOF. The only stipulation (and thats in the LTSA guidelines as opposed to "the law") is that you should be driving directly to the WOF agent.
The problem is not the law, its those enforcing it.
Well actually I suspect its possibly not even "those enforcing it" thats the problem. I get the impression there is a lot of pressure to issue infringement notices for anything they can. Just like there is a lot of pressure now to charge someone for dangerous driving if they have an accident as there are " no accidents "
modie61,
Nov 6, 11:30pm
Dead right Jazz,its an enforcement problem. I know of a person that drove their car from Wellington to Foxton and back,passed by 4 hiway patrol cars and the car is not currently regoed or wofd.
crzyhrse,
Nov 7, 12:23am
All I'm seeing from this post is it's too difficult to weed out the sensible from the stupid so roll the dice. That's the same attitude the Police have.
crzyhrse,
Nov 7, 12:25am
Yeah, ignore that bollocks. That's not the law.
drew2009,
Nov 7, 12:42am
A way around the government taking innocent peoples money for their own gain!
Police Officers with a reasonable attitude and common sense!
Dont think that'll happen any time soon.
pollymay,
Nov 7, 12:44am
Only one solution
Do a mad skid
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