Speak out before Police Stupidity costs more lives

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thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:08pm
Having lost a family member through similar Police stupidity I can understand where this doctor is coming from.

Its time Police were held accountable for their ACTUAL duty which is to protect people and save lives. Instead we are sold a revenue collection system and PR campaigns while lives and property are endangered and lost through a complete lack of effective policing.

Before some nit picker points it out the person in this story may not have lost their life as a direct result of the delay but it doesn't always turn out that way at all.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5701603/Speeding-doctor-rude-and-aggressive

The sooner people speak up and demand real policing, the sooner lives can be saved.
johnf_456, Sep 28, 7:11pm
Not again
kazbanz, Sep 28, 7:22pm
Nope sorry dude I can't agree with you here.The car driver was speedng.
The cop has a duty to stop speeding drivers and unless I'm reading incorrectly diddn't ticket the doc and remember the doc CONTINUED TO SPEEDafter being pulled over but even so did not get ticketed by the cop-iEcop saw it was genuine and did his best to assist. .
Reads to me as sensible policing.
Before this gets all nasty -- i AGREE 100% THAT THERES AN ISSUE.
IMOThe issue is not the cop doing his job or the doc trying to do his.
The issue is that there is NO legal provision forIC doctors to speed on their way to a medical EMERGENCY.
i APSOLUTELY feel that those docs should be allowed the self same LEGAL freedoms that police .ambulance and fire service have.ON THEIR WAY TO AN EMERGENCY.
it really would be simplicity itself to impliment.
A list of docs,addressesand rego's be supplied to the cops.then if a doc is on his way to an emergency then he or the hospital calls it in and the cops could actually ASSIST THE DOC RATHER THAN HINDERING THEM.
My point being--lets change the SYSTEM not hassle a cop for doing his job
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:24pm
So.

There is some official form of identification, that the Doctor was supposed to have had on him for just such situations as this.

.and had he been able to present this identification to the Cop, there would have been no problem.

.however on this occasion the Doctor had neglected to have this identification with him.

But somehow the villain of the piece is nevertheless the Police Officer, who should have just accepted Joe Random's roadside story without question and let him go on his speeding way.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:26pm
Kaz you are making the mistake of trying to legislate everything as a substitute for common sense. You simply CANNOT regulate everything and have rules for every possible situation.

All that is required is Police who are up to the job and who are trained and expected to use common sense and discretion.

Instead there has been a real effort made to remove discretion and decisive thinking from the Police and this is the result.

There is no harm at all in improving the system as you have suggested, I support it whole heartedly. However when the system doesn't fit common sense should apply.
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:26pm
That's a good scam though, I might try it if I'm ever picked up for speeding.

"I'm a Doctor, officer!"

[Lead Police Officer to Hutt Hospital]

[Drive in the main gate of Hutt Hospital]

[Lead police officer into the new carparking building at Hutt Hospital]

[quick plant the boot and back out of the parking building, past the ambo bay, lose the cop in the chaos and escape out the back gate of the hospital.]

The perfect crime!
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:28pm
The Police could have just used common sense. The doctor had the phone and pager showing the message from the Hospital. If there was any doubt the Officer could have grabbed his license and immediately followed the car to the hospital.

Why on earth do people think its acceptable to put lives at risk for the sake of procedure, have we really been brainwashed that much!

Can we no longer do basic prioritization of risk ourselves!

Its like the flaming twilight zone in here!
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:30pm
Assuming you are in a stolen car at the time and the officer didn't think to grab your license off you.
shelleigh, Sep 28, 7:30pm
Jazz I am so sorry you have lost someone.
However that doctor should not have been speeding. He could have injured/killed someone himself.
I do agree with kazbanz that doctors should be able to have something that identifies them as such when they are on their way to an emergency situation - maybe a flashing light that is only issued to doctors. It's something that should have been put in place a very long time ago.
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:31pm
^^^ According to the article the cop did allow the Dr. to proceed to the hospital, once the phone and pager were presented, and he followed just to make sure the story was legit.

Sounds resaonably "common sense" to me.!
kazbanz, Sep 28, 7:32pm
Jazz it is SENSIBLEto drive at the legally imposed speed limit.
The driver chose not to do so and was pulled over for speeding.
how is that bad policing!
YES- the doc had good reason to hurry but how on earth was the cop to know that!
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:32pm
Oh don't worry about that - I'll have fake plates on my car and a fake license to hand over, along with my fake Doctor's pager. I've thought the whole thing through.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:33pm
Thanks for the condolences.
I disagree though, its about balancing risk. The Doctor was likely doing the correct thing by speeding because he was weighing up the very small risk of accident/injury/death of speeding against the huge risk of a patient dying from his not arriving in time.

It would be a very very sad day when emergency services, doctors etc have to abide by every road rule to the letter and people die as a consequence.

Think of it this way, if you were transporting a loved one to hospital who was dieing in the seat next to you, would you obey the speed limit! If you were the one dying would you want your driver/doctor obeying the speed limit!
sifty, Sep 28, 7:33pm
Happened to me once, I was called out to ICU on emergency, and was pulled over en route. Had a bit of trouble convincing the copper as I was in hawaiian shirt and boardies, but got the full lit up escort down to hospital once he knew the score.

Yeeehah.
purple666, Sep 28, 7:33pm
A few years ago common sense would have ruled but todays coppers are told to issue tickets etc and let the courts decide. The new breed of coppers don't have the ahh "training" to use common sense.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 7:35pm
Thats it in a nutshell, YAY!
Someone gets it!
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:40pm
I will have to start calling you The-Bait-and-Switch-ma if you keep this sort of thing up!

Emergency services have sirens, and massive flashing lights, to ensure that all motorists in their vicinity are aware that something hairy is going on, and that you'd better get out of the way RIGHT NOW because a bat out of hell is coming through on an urgent mission.

They can, and they routinely do, cross intersections against the lights, use the wrong side of the road, and exceed speed limits.

Don't pretend there's some kind of slippery slope that leads from a Doctor without proper I.D. speeding in his private car and getting pulled up by some Cop who's trying to do his job and doesn't know him from a bar of soap, to a police state where Ambulances and Fire engines are going to be prevented from doing their jobs by some sort of goon squad. That's an X-Files quality conspiracy theory.
richardmayes, Sep 28, 7:41pm
Was there a ticket issued in this story!
purple666, Sep 28, 7:48pm
I have probably had more dealings than most with coppers over the last 40 years so I feel well qualified to make a judgement based on my observations.
kazbanz, Sep 28, 7:55pm
An even sadder day ifthe doctor,some innocent driver AND the origonal patient died as a result of the doctor in an unmarked car having an accident.
Ihave recently seencars fail to pull over for an AMBULANCEwith FULL blues n twos cranking so how safe is said unmarked cargoing faster than everyone else on the road expects them to be.
ALSO- Police drivers.ambos and fireys have been trained to drive at high speed. The doc may be a total magician in the operating theatre but be an idiot on the road.
purple666, Sep 28, 8:00pm
118kph on a state highway makes him an idiot! Hardly dangerous I would think.
A target for revenue gathering maybe.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 8:05pm
Likewise through business etc, my attitude has changed considerably the more I have had to deal with them. Whats needed is to somehow break through the bubble of propaganda and show people how things really are. The sooner everyone can see whats really going on the sooner we can admit there is a problem and fix it.
thejazzpianoma, Sep 28, 8:09pm
+1
The doctor is the best person involved to weigh up the risk of his driving fast causing an accident vs his getting to the hospital later and losing the patient.
He certainly dosn't need to be specially trained or have flashing lights to exceed the limit by just 18% on a state highway.
Its all about balancing risks and even with the limited information we have to hand its easy to see that the risk of driving 18km/h over the limit is likely to be significantly less than that of losing the patient.

There are studies being done showing how people are losing the ability and inclination to assess risk themselves and I think this thread highlights that well.
dr.doolittle, Sep 28, 8:17pm
So whats your point again!
dr.doolittle, Sep 28, 8:24pm
Your posts age getting dopier by the minute!
Doctors can be bad drivers too! And as for " even with the limited information we have to hand its easy to see that the risk of driving 18km/h over the limit is likely to be significantly less than that of losing the patient.", I'm lost for words.