Toyota Granvia/Reguis

Perhaps you should grow some balls and stop hiding behind a fake account!

Geez guys Im trying to ask some serious questions here

The transmission is fairly bullet proof,same as surf,lexus of that era ,not a 7speed dsg ,but you can get replacement for coupla hundred bucks!as for RUCs allegedly they easy to switch,but thats illegal !lol

Any Idea how many Ks can be done before a trans rebuild is needed!

Depends how its looked after ,what work its done,i have a vehicle with that trans and its getting to 300k ,and drives like new,BUT i service it ,when it needs it ,put a trans cooler on the Granvia,and get the standard mufflers cut off and get a freeflow muffler put on,wont be noisy with the turbo ,and it gets rid of the heat.

Its not that they don't like getting overheated (although doing a hard run up a big hill is often the straw that breaks the camels back). The head has a factory design flaw so unless its already been swapped out for a better aftermarket one you need to put aside around $4000 to have it replaced at some point. This isn't a "might happen" its a pretty much guaranteed to happen, just a matter of when.

Do the math on the running costs and make sure you really are happy paying literally twice as much to run it and servicing it 2-3 times more often than some of the other alternatives.

If you are happy with that then go for gold.

Your comments usually make sense, but not this time sorry, what you have said here is absolute bullshit!

How exactly is this a false account!

How so!
This is a 1KZ we are talking about, you are looking at up around 12l/100km doing the same sort of running that uses 6l/100km in a good common rail people mover.

Service intervals if you want them to last need to be around 7500km vs 15'000 - 30'000 km in a good common rail people mover.

The 1KZ is infamous for its head cracking, its rare for me not to see a 1KZ head in the scrap bin at the garage of a friend of mine.

As for replacement cost, what would you charge! To do the job properly I think my 4K would be about right but feel free to argue.

Basically in short the Granvia sits on the wrong side of the common rail diesel technology revolution. Yet you are paying good modern common rail people mover money.

Feel free to take up specific points if you think I am being unfair in any way.

BTW, sometimes the 1KZ is the best of a bad bunch (say if you need a 4WD ute and have $10'000 to spend) in which case fair enough. But where you have a choice in the same price range its pretty illogical to buy something with such an inefficient and costly to run old engine.

Even more unusual, the only real selling point for the Granvia is perceived reliability and easy servicing. However the irony is as stated above reliability and service costs are actually incredibly high.

I just can't see any logical reason why you would buy one over what else is available.

Yeah, sure.

1. Granvia is a van and comes as a RWD or 4WD. The Fiat is a car that's half the size of the Granvia and comes in FWD form only.

2. Granvia is heavier, more robust, most are automatic, and utilise an engine that's now 20 years old and will smoke the little Fiat every time. They have heaps of power. Fiat comes as a manual with a more modern engine, hence the service and economy benefits.

3. A lot of Granvias (as well as Surfs, Hiluxes and Prados) are most likely neglected imports that possibly spent most of their time idling in Tokyo. So, when they come here, they might be OK or not. I also need to add that there are heaps more 1KZ powered Toyotas in NZ than Multiplas (thankfully!). Due to the difference in ratios, of course you'll see lots of blown up Toyotas than you will Fiats.

4. 1KZ does not have a design fault, owners do. I've never seen an intercooled 1KZ with a blown head, but I have only seen one blown in a non intercooled Surf.

5. Should a Granvia have a blown head, or any other commercial Toyota, they are worth repairing, as they will keep on going for a long time after the repair. And, they will retain their value to some degree.

6. $4k to repair! If you pay someone to do it + all the other jobs, like radiator etc, it can be done for around $2500 to $3000. But, if you do it yourself, halve those figures. So not a big deal, kind of the same price as a cambelt job on a V6 Audi (which needs to be done every 5 years anyway.)

So, really Jazz, you are not comparing two equal types of vehicles, they are both very different and the only thing they have in common is the number of seats. Van vs car, RWD vs FWD, mechanical diesel vs common rail, etc, etc.

Mugen do you get a Toyota cap or something for this incessant support of outdated and unreliable junk! Is it a reflection of your limited tech. ability!

Thanks for the response muganb20b, sorry I was slow to pick it up.
Here are my thoughts.

1. Granvia is a van and comes as a RWD or 4WD. The Fiat is a car that's half the size of the Granvia and comes in FWD form only.

A. We are not just talking about Fiats here, there are a number of good options in the price range both large and small which utilise better modern technology and are more efficient, safer and better designed.

2. Granvia is heavier, more robust, most are automatic, and utilise an engine that's now 20 years old and will smoke the little Fiat every time. They have heaps of power. Fiat comes as a manual with a more modern engine, hence the service and economy benefits.

A. Yes, the Fiat does have a more modern design and the Toyota technology is well out of date, that's the whole point! I don't think the OP was concerned about 4WD and other options like the Touran have a much better automatic transmission than the Toyota. I am not sure in what you way you mean the Granvia is "more robust", its engine is not known for taking punishment as much as Fiats are and the Fiat is Galvanised and well put together, as are some other options. Weight is generally the enemy of economy and not something you generally want in a car. If you are thinking from a stability standpoint the likes of a Multpla is far more stable in a cross wind than the Toyota.

3. A lot of Granvias (as well as Surfs, Hiluxes and Prados) are most likely neglected imports that possibly spent most of their time idling in Tokyo. So, when they come here, they might be OK or not. I also need to add that there are heaps more 1KZ powered Toyotas in NZ than Multiplas (thankfully!). Due to the difference in ratios, of course you'll see lots of blown up Toyotas than you will Fiats.

A. I see your point based on numbers. However the 1KZ really is absolutely terrible for cracking heads its not just creative accounting. We are not talking about a 5% failure rate we are talking about an almost 100% failure rate. Its a design fault and any Toyota mechanic should tell you the same. The 1.9 Diesel family used in the Fiat is a far more popular engine in terms of worldwide sales and is renound for its reliability.

4. 1KZ does not have a design fault, owners do. I've never seen an intercooled 1KZ with a blown head, but I have only seen one blown in a non intercooled Surf.

A. I have, the intercooler may help but ultimately they will almost all crack a head at some point. I am a little surprised at your response actually, I would have thought you would have seen a constant stream of them like I have. Perhaps they are less prone to problems in the colder south island or the large range where I live is the straw that breaks their backs more often!

5. Should a Granvia have a blown head, or any other commercial Toyota, they are worth repairing, as they will keep on going for a long time after the repair. And, they will retain their value to some degree.

AThe same can be said for other options like the Multipla and Touran in the price range. I fail to see the point you are making!

6. $4k to repair! If you pay someone to do it + all the other jobs, like radiator etc, it can be done for around $2500 to $3000. But, if you do it yourself, halve those figures. So not a big deal, kind of the same price as a cambelt job on a V6 Audi (which needs to be done every 5 years anyway.)

Sweet, you can do it 25% cheaper, still a significant cost though. As for saying you can do it yourself cheaper and then compare it to paying someone to do a job on a completely different vehicle thats not even a people mover. you have completely lost me in how that is relevant!!

So, really Jazz, you are not comparing two equal types of vehicles, they are both very different and the only thing they have in common is the number of seats. Van vs car, RWD vs FWD, mechanical diesel vs common rail, etc, etc.

Yes the vehicles may be different but they would likely forfill the same purpose for the OP.

Sorry, I ran out of space so couldn't put a "A." next to all my answers. So it becomes a bit hard to spot the responses down the bottom.

Just one more response to:
"Granvia is heavier, more robust, most are automatic, and utilise an engine that's now 20 years old and will smoke the little Fiat every time"

I don't know what the official figures are but my experience in the real world is yet to show me a 1KZ powered anything that can keep up with a Diesel Multipla, both in acceleration and top speed. As for handling, forget it, the Multipla will out handle the Granvia every time.

I think it would be a good idea for you to drive a 2.0 FSI Touran and a Diesel Multipla. Until you do I don't think you will grasp how much better these modern people movers are when compared to the Toyota's above.

Times change, the Toyota 1KZ has long past having its day. Its just that there are a bunch of people left who have not yet experienced the new alternatives and struggle to understandhow a newer smaller motor can be so much better.

Granvia driver is laughing so hard at the looks of the Multipla he forgets to push the go pedal ;-)
TBH the main things that would stop me looking at the Touran / Multipla's that you like so much is that they are not full size people movers like my excellent Estima (I need more than 6 seats), plus the Estima really pulls the chicks (laughs at own joke).
And no matter what you say, those DSG gearboxes scare me in the same way that early CVT Nissans do.There is something to be said for owning a vehicle which is common in the location you live.

And yes, agreed my Estima is hardly modern technology with the basic auto, a few more gears would be nice.

Go trolling somewhere else buddy.

There are still better larger options, the Espace springs to mind as one of them. But really if you are happy with your Estima then good for you, personally I find them big, lumbering and thirsty with surprisingly little usable space for there size.

I personally would rather wait overnight on the very rare occasion I needed something not off the shelf than live with such a bulky thirsty bohemoth on a day to day basis.

Laugh away at the styling, it dosn't bother me in the least.

Oh, and in case you didn't know the Touran has 7 seats.

I am not sure what you mean by trolling but I am entitled to an opinion. God knows we have to read enough of yours.

Fair enough comments Jazz, but I guess it comes down to personal preference and needs. For general use I would happily own a later shape Multipla for example over a Granvia, but, when it comes to commercial use or towing heavy loads, etc. The Granvia would be a better choice for me, however, I'd only buy one if the price was right and if it had a FSH.

Not knocking you, especially as I appreciate your considered and reasonable response.
But honestly, if I was towing I would take the Multipla every time, they actually tow really well, which is funny you would think the small engine wouldn't do as well with a large load on, but surprisingly it does. I wouldn't trust a 1KZ for towing large loads unless it had a replacement head that I was really happy with.

That said, I appreciate your point that each vehicle has its place. If they really needed 4WD and 7 seats in the 10K bracket it may well be the Toyota is the best option.

Thanks for the robust debate!

I find the space fine, can fit 8 people (in relative comfort, they can be adults !), pushchair and stuff in the boot, front doors can both take a 1.5 litre bottle of coke in the door pockets, as can the rears I think (yes, I drink too much coke)!Plenty of compartments here and there for extras.Definitely not fast, but can break the speed limit with ease up hills, uses no more gas than my 2.5 Cefiro.Not fast around corners, but its a people mover not a sports car.
Just had a look at the Espace for sale on TM, I can see why you would like it ('quirky' at best) although it is much better priced than an equivalent age Estima.Only seats 7 by the look of it, and in fact the basic shape is very simlar to an Estima.
Sorry to get off topic OP - we also looked at Granvia's but decided on the Estima as it drove much more like a car.

I think I deserve a Toyota hat.

TBH I'd rather have an H1 Station wagon, but the Mrs wasn't even remotely interested (plus it only seated 6).

Likewise. I enjoy robust debates. Sorry, just to clarify wheh it comes to towing. For example, I'd rather tow a car trailer with a Granvia than fwd.something else.

Good comments,
The Espace comes in two sizes, "Espace" and "Grande Espace" the Grande can have 8 seats from memory. Yes its got that Estimaish shape, the big advantages of the Estima are running costs, comfort/handling and power. Its big so its still fairly bulky.

The disadvantage is perhaps if you only had 3rd party insurance and wanted a replacement secondhand door panel. Not a major but only fair and reasonable to point out.

No good for you but when you only need 6 seats the Multi reigns supreme because you can take 6 adults + their luggage yet still have a car that is easier to park in town that a Toyota Yaris. The short but wide idea works really really well.

Oh.you again.what opinion have you come up with so far that's beneficial to OP!

i had a regius as a work wagon, everyone else had v8 landcruisers so i was a bit bummed at first haha, but apart from looking gay it was the sweetest thing, plenty of grunt in the hills and would cruise all day as fast as you felt the urge to go even with eight guys and a bit of gear in it, did some serious ksin it and never had any problems except the radio never went, but the icing on the cake was the electric curtains.