I bought a Falcon project car. It had been for an initial re-vin inspection. On the fail side of the inspection sheet was 'Requires LVV for engine change' - so it wasn't going to pass until the LVV certification for the bigger motor had been done.
smac,
Jul 3, 9:47pm
Well. yes and no :)
As you've said anything changed above the tolerances for THAT CAR does need a cert. eg if I whack discs onto an old mini that had drums from new then yes it should be certed. It doesn't matter that there were minis with almost identical spec that came with discs.
However, where it gets messy is that in the 60's and 70's (maybe 80's) if you went to a BMC dealer and said I wanna buy a Mini 1000 but I want discs on the front (or cooper exhaust, or gold brocade upholstery or whatever), they would slap them on before it rolled off the show room floor. So THAT CAR did indeed have discs from when first registered. No cert needed even though a mini expert looking at the car now would say "that car has been modified".
I think that has a lot to do with inspectors now looking at them and just thinking "meh. mini discs on a mini. pass". As for engine swaps. unless there is a hairy-arse cam (technical term) in there very few WOF guys would know how to check, and sometimes it is impossible to tell externally if the engine number has gone (hot tank does that), so unless they're gonna make you remove the head, you get a WOF.
bwg11,
Jul 3, 11:24pm
Certainly not my recollection of mini marketing in the 1960's. There were waiting lists, you pre-paid a significant depost, gratefully took whatever colour and trim level that was available, and got shafted on your demanded trade-in.
smac,
Jul 3, 11:38pm
Ha! Yeah that too. Not having been alive until halfway through the period we're talking about, I am going on 2nd hand info. However SOMEwhere around here I do have a bunch of of old scanned adverts, talking about trim levels and 'dealer options' etc.
bwg11,
Jul 4, 12:06am
Yes, what you suggest would have been quite possible in the later part of the period when minis became harder to move off the showroom floor, the industry became less regulated, and of course Japanese competition. I remember a Honda Civic review where it was described as, "the car which out-minis the mini".
richardmayes,
Jul 4, 12:35am
People have been modifying minis for a long time. when did the current LVVC certification scheme begin?
richardmayes,
Jul 4, 12:45am
You never know though.
I used to work with an old bloke who had an XJ6-C. Exceptionally well maintained, you could eat your dinner off any part of it etc. He had a story of how he failed a WOF one time at VTNZ for "excessive play in left and right rear wheel bearings". He tried explaining to the (middle aged) inspector that the half shafts act as the upper wishbone of the suspension on those cars, and there has to be a bit of movement in the bearings for it all to work. inspector didn't want to know.
With much pleading the inspector agreed to ask a colleague. So over walks young asian VTNZ inspector, with a diamond earring in his ear, cap on backwards etc. At this point my mate thinks he's doomed, what would a young Chinese boy racer know about old Jaguars?
Young Chinese guy gives each heel a bit of a heave-ho with his shoulder, and immediately tells the older inspector "that's fine, there's meant to be a little bit of play in these".
smac,
Jul 4, 1:17am
Ya but if the vehicle was modified before LVV was introduced you were supposed to get it inspected and get a declaration signed saying "It's all good". NZTA have copies of all these declarations tucked away (I've had to chase a couple up in the past). So if a modified vehicle goes for a wof now it should either have an LVV plate, or the owner has to produce the old declaration.
scuba,
Jul 4, 1:43am
Could be wrong but i think a copy of the declaration was laminated and given to the owner to stay with the car- yeah good luck with that.
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 3:00am
Correct. I had that done on a Sunbird I had with a 186 in it. no was NOT laminated either ;-(
hrt,
Jul 4, 3:21am
Some people still have them, and they're still legal. Though not laminated so most are getting a bit rough around the edges. Losing it tends to result in having to go through the cert process.
tigra,
Jul 4, 3:42am
1985?
smac,
Jul 4, 3:46am
x1
The one's I was involved with we sourced 2 out of 3 from NZTA, they held copies. The third they didn't have so vehicle had to get certed.
lissa25,
Jul 4, 5:57am
hmmm, lots of food for thought, mine came with a stuffed 1100 and siezed discs in what I think was supposed to be a 998, I couldn't find any decent discs to replace at the time so rebuilt the motor, bored 80 thou over size, with all new parts and ancillaries, still couldn't get a decent set of discs so converted back to drums which got wofs, but with all the new go faster bits in the motor it scared the crap out of me so did a bit of bartering with a fellow club member who had a full set of nos 7.5" discs, callipers and cv's. I don't have any declaration paper work but by looking at the old discs that were on it I assumed they were factory, mines a 71 and I was told it was most likely a 998 when new but have no evidence of that either. I haven't had any issues with vtnz giving it a wof or obtaining insurance etc, should I be ok as is or will I need to get a cert?
barrylarry,
Jul 4, 6:39am
same old case of "if it looks the part. then it is". Had toyotas that had their 3k's replaced with 4k's. Same looking engine, but different displacement. Flew threw wofs no problem.
smac,
Jul 4, 6:49am
The only reason you haven't had any issue with insurance is because they don't know.
As for VTNZ, you won't know until you try.
lissa25,
Jul 4, 7:02am
Last 4 wofs from vtnz, 2 with drums 2 with discs (failed first one with dodgy old discs passed with good drums), full disclosure with insurance co, incl description and photos mainly due to expensive engine internals, everything new from cam up to rockers and everything in between, first time I have heard it may be an issue is on here
LTNZ told us if it was made in production for the model and year it is called a WOF that goes for after production parts to
tony9,
Jul 4, 10:28pm
Thanks for all the input, had not planned to open a can of worms.
I will be getting certification and Vinning as stock standard and with the original engine. I may have enough trouble with panel repairs, if they notice.
Later I will do engine and brake swaps and if a wof complains I will go for LVV certification. Seems to be the most reliable approach.
hotrodtodd1,
Jul 4, 10:32pm
Some time back, I went from a 1000cc Mini engine to a 1380 Mini engine with LCB exhaust and Cooper S muffler and the typical for the time 45 weber.
Too it to the WOF shop in Gisborne and failed for not having a cert. They also said the wheels - 6 inch Minilites and 165 tyres needed to go on the cert too or they had to be removed.
Getting certified was not an issue at all, so got it done and had fun in the car for a few years then sold it on.
lissa25,
Jul 5, 7:26am
I have enjoyed this can of worms, has opened my eyes to potential issues etc, I guess the mini has had so many options and add ons over its long lifespan that pretty much anything is possible. One thing I do know from experience is that the wee mini puts a big smile on your face, good luck with your revin I hope it all goes well. If you aren't aware, the mini nationals are always a bit of fun and a great chance to have a legal play, normally labour weekend, will be in Auckland this year
fordcrzy,
Jul 5, 8:38am
my 1300 escort had front discs, a 1600 sport motor bored out to 1700 and fast road cam with a (Fiat?) carby. looked factory and never even raised any questions.
brokebloke1,
Apr 3, 2:54pm
same as my capri factory 1300 but is now 1600 gt motor been for many wof and no one has pick it up, ( to be honest id forgotten that it had the 1600 till I read this )
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