Hey, two people are never going to see eye to eye. The thing is I??
mantagsi,
Sep 29, 9:30am
The way I see it is that Chinese vehicles, regardless of how good or bad they are, are severely 'tainted' in most peoples eyes due to the association that made in china = no quality. I even have chinese customers who won't buy 'made in china' products in the western market. I myself am not a fan of chinese made equipment but I do believe that they are able to build quality equipment, except no one is willing to pay the price for it. Truth is the majority of people want stuff cheap and cheerful, hence the western world is happy to import cheap stuff from china, then all of a sudden every single item from china is now considered cheap and nasty. Anyway I am just another bigoted round eye who will stick with euro and jappa cars, but I would like to think that one day there will be more to china than cheapy junk for the western world! (if it still exists in a few years)
mellisa2000,
Sep 29, 10:48am
You summed it up.SHOULD.But those components alone do not make a vehicle. All the other cheap crap makes the vehicle.
crzyhrse,
Sep 29, 11:00am
Nah. None of their other stuff has improved before. They have a completely different mindset to the Japanese and Koreans who do actually improve their products through investment and development as an investment for the future. Meanwhile, for the Chinese, any piece of junk will do.
pollymay,
Sep 29, 11:21am
I still stand behind the quality control not being up to scratch. I've been trying to source some stuff lately and looked at china but on good grounds found people to have troubles, the metalurgy was fine but the final machining was not outsourced and is kinda crap. What I landed up buying were chinese products that were US machine finished. I don't care if american joe or ching-lee does the work as long as when I hand over a big wad of cash I get what I need and what I needed was tight tolerances and china was just not offering that with their motor parts.
lovemore_mbigi,
Sep 29, 7:29pm
No Chinese with money to afford choices will buy a Chinese motor vehicle.
Says it all really.
tigra,
Sep 29, 7:38pm
Whats the bet we see utes etc being imported from India within a few years,
3tomany,
Sep 29, 7:52pm
havnt tata already started!
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 29, 8:17pm
Yip the Japanese even have a word for it "Kaizen" which roughly translates "improvement" but really refers to a strategy of continuous improvement one small aspect at a time.
Admittedly the Americans and British helped improve their quality control etc after WW2 but if you read about the history of the Toyoda family etc its apparent that they were still heading in the right direction even before the war.
The cultural mindset of honor above everything and doing anything to avoid losing face helps too. Its hard to keep shoddy quality/business practices in line with family honor.
The thing with Japan is they improved a lot as they gained the skills to do the job. The Chinese already know how to do a good job (because they do when they are under contract to overseas company's) but they choose not to in favor of saving a buck when they do things for themselves.
mm12345,
Sep 29, 8:55pm
A big difference is that as Japan went through an industrialisation boom, the people working in the factories shared the bounty - they could afford to buy the very product that they were making. Not so in China.Plenty of people working long hours making "cheap" products for western consumers - but onwages meaning that they cannot ever afford to buy the product themselves. Does that make a difference to quality!IMO it probably does.It also requires strict authoritarian control - with the consequence that to avoid the perceived risk of punitive measures taken against an individual for "failure", the system has an incentive for individuals to try to cover up mistakes which they think may be blamed on them.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 29, 10:34pm
You make some good points. In fairness I should point out though that some factory workers over there actually do very well nowadays. Its not uncommon to see ladies working in the factory's wearing very nice gold and diamond jewelry. It does depend on the factory though and certainly the population is still has an enormous group who are still on the poverty line. Quite different to Japan as you have said.
saki,
Sep 30, 4:01am
And the company isnt owned by a person,
mapman,
Sep 30, 7:16am
But the product might be named after the person. In your case SIKA that is true, I've just name a UTV with a Chery engine a SIKA -RS.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 30, 7:19am
No, I think it more likely that company is owned by an Ass.
saki,
Sep 30, 8:55am
a very very rich ass actually
lovemore_mbigi,
Sep 30, 7:20pm
100%.
At heart the Chinese economy is based on minimum wage, compliant slave labour with no pride in their work.They follow orders perfectly.So if the factory boss says "Cut quality to save money."they will do so without question: something that would be unthinkable in Japan.
michael.benn,
Oct 1, 1:23am
What a load of rubbish.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 1, 1:32am
I couldn't agree more. Notice how he didn't take up the offer to show us all these Fiat cars with the Chery engines! Even the Panda bit is funny since the car was named over 30 years ago when comparatively little was made in China.
mapman,
Oct 1, 4:34am
You know as little as your post wee bean, please tell us all why it??
mapman,
Oct 1, 4:50am
Back in 2007 Fiat signed a deal to buy 100,000 Chery engines a year recognizing Chinese technologies and quality after testing their engines for 12 months. So we are talking 2006 Jazz, just in case you can??
mapman,
Oct 1, 5:02am
Oh, I suppose you wanted me to back it up using facts.It would be rude not to/ http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-fiat.1.6997341.htmlread and weep. Maybe bean and jazz can find something that can back up their non-facts. Bear in mind when you read the New York Times article, this was back in 2007 and one fact needs updating and that would be China is now the largest car manufacture in the world. I can back that up too, but suggest maybe you use Google first bean to save face a wee bit.
saki,
Oct 1, 5:38am
Best fiat I ever drove was the polski fiat in 1984 in UK
michael.benn,
Oct 1, 5:41am
Please don't embarrass yourself by starting an argument with me, you won't get far. Wee bean! How quaint.
It's a load of rubbish because that entire post I quoted is full of complete and utter OPINION. Not fact. There's a massive difference between cold hard facts, and opinion. You should know that by now.
Great Wall make rubbish, low quality cars. Go on, disagree with me and back it up with facts. They have the knowhow! Sure, any country has the knowhow. They have the manpower! Look at their population, and average wage. They have the cash! Of course they bloody well do, it's China for christs sake. Every bloody thing you see on the shelves is "Made in China" these days, and it's been like that since I was 5 years old.
China gets away with producing crap because they produce so much of it, and pay their workers so little money. It's a bloody joke. Quantity over quality.
Cool, Fiat decides to use Chery's engines. That's fine. I wasn't aware of that, and now am. Fantastic. That speaks more about Fiat than it does about Chery though. As in why the hell are Fiat sinking that low.
scotty20001,
Oct 1, 5:48am
back the truck up, Ford are also guilty of the same thing, the awful Festiva was made in Korea and the new Feista is made in Thailand a 3rd world shithole just like the accord thai, atleast Holden haven't stooped that low, im not saying the Epica is a great car but they arnt that bad if you don't give a shit about driving i would still have one over an accord at least they don't charge a premium price for a middle of the road product unlike honda.
scotty20001,
Oct 1, 5:51am
weather you like it or not, the great wall shit will sell because kiwis will buy it in droves, just like the other joke of a car called the cr-v.
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