With 30kWh, 50kWh, 100kWh or larger batteries in EVs located in many or most cars therein lies an opportunity for all that potential storage capacity to be utilised to buffer power demand spikes on the national grid thereby reducing the need for 'peaker' generating plants.
lusty9,
Oct 5, 10:30pm
I doubt that will happen in good ole nz for a while yet mate, we're still trying to actually get affordable housing on the go and shopping around to get a cheap power provider to go with so we can turn on the lights. But yay for all those who can afford an EV, perhaps you can drive up my drive at night and point your lights thru my windows on full-beam so I don't have to burn up the ridiculous amount of off-peak charges just to see. lol
marte,
Oct 5, 11:42pm
We have Hydro power and the gates can be shut whenever they want to. When they do that, the top lake level rises and there's a higher 'head' of water and that makes for a more efficient power generation until the level drops again.
Overseas often use Nuclear power, coal turbine, gas or such to generate power and these plants cannot just be stopped at a minutes notice. Hence the 'peaks and troughs' of power generation that they have there.
Its not really a issue here except once we did have 'off peak' where water had to flow thru the Dams anyway, by deferring day time power use to night time, we could generate power and keep a constant flow of water thru the lake thru the night. Back then. All that night rate power does now is save me 0.9 cents a unit. 21 cents vs 22 cents a unit. My power use accounts for about 25% of my power bill anyway.
In reality, here in NZ, in the future, we will make more use of solar panels, which can charge a battery at home, or at a supermarket or employment and charge cars there.
With replaceable rechargeable car batterys, they can be used to make 240 volts for home use, or it can go back into 'the grid'. Or fast charge or top up a car battery when the cars at home or quick charge by just replacing the battery. Its also a way of using car battery's which have passed their usable life in cars, but can still hold a good charge, until they get recycled.
Practicaly, electric cars wil be properly viable only when they put the electric motor into the wheels. Wait until then.
Brake pads on a electric car is a complete facepalm.
harm_less,
Oct 6, 9:35am
It would be worth your checking out the rates at Ecotricity. Their off-peak (11pm-7am) rates are as low as 11.8c + GST/kWh with daytime rates of 23.7c +GST/kWh so well suited for EV overnight charging. Those rates are combined Network and Energy charges.
This sort of price differential would suggest that the whole on/off peak scenario is not as simple as opening or closing hydro dam gates.
remmers,
Oct 6, 9:49am
I think there will be brake pads on EVs for some time, there has to be a backup. However in normal use they are hardly used, one pedal driving is the norm in the newer EVs.
elect70,
Oct 6, 1:55pm
Power co s arent really interested in buying your power theyd rather just sell it to you particulary A/H .Few gas fed p ower stations have been mothballed & Huntly runs infrequently & quite a few small stations used only at peak times for voltage stabilsing . So not really for Nz in the near future
mechnificent,
Oct 6, 3:35pm
Trouble might be that everyone would get home in the evening and plug their flat cars in. right when we need them to be full and supplying the peak hour power. but instead they will be absorbing power.
elect70,
Oct 6, 4:42pm
^^ ha hadnt thought about that --- suddenly your lights go dim as the voltage in your street drops &he transformer burns out due to overload . & . have walk to work next morning as battery is flat .
mechnificent,
Oct 6, 4:58pm
No my house. I'm solar, solar power and water and a fire. Ah. life in the peaceful country. And I burn petrol in my car.
,
Oct 7, 11:44am
There's actually a Christchurch company working on this very thing. Recently went to a presentation on it, wasn't a lot more complex technically than installing smart meters which has already been done all over NZ.
I suspect it will become commonplace in the not too distant future, the benefits for the grid are pretty sweet, and there's an obvious business model there too.
framtech,
Oct 7, 11:55am
Its only a matter of time and EV's will cause a massive increase of the cost of electricity supply for everyone, Use petrol, there's plenty of it and its cheap. Most of the pollution is made during manufacture of a vehicle EV or petrol . The whole EV thing is being generated by money greedy corporations and bureaucrats on the smoke screen of poorly informed greenies.
harm_less,
Oct 7, 12:58pm
How can the price of electricity rise when it is becoming increasingly easy and cheaper to generate it from sunlight? If the power companies start ramping up their supply prices it will make self generation from PV all the more inviting and consumers will just cut the power co's out of the loop.
tony9,
Oct 7, 4:48pm
The only reason for different day and night residential prices is due to the Local Authority lines charges, the actual energy component pretty much stays the same. And the reason for the Variable Lines charges is to reduce peak loads which require bigger transformers and cables. Nothing to do with generation in NZ.
However IF many people switch to EVs with night rate charging it is inevitable that off peak lines charges will go up.
tony9,
Oct 7, 4:49pm
Yes, it is becoming cheaper, but it is still about 10 times higher cost than thermal or hydro power.
apollo11,
Oct 7, 4:59pm
Really? Thought that solar was supposed to be cheaper than coal now?
lusty9,
Oct 7, 5:01pm
the set-up cost of the equipment. I Paid $13k for my set-up and won't see any savings till probably the 3rd year.
tony9,
Oct 7, 5:11pm
Not in NZ. To produce another 1000GWhr of energy (Medium sized Hydro station, and about 1/5 of that required to transfer the domestic vehicle fleet to EV) in NZ and run it for 20 years at today's prices, coal is lowest, Hydro next, then a way more, wind and then solar. Geothermal is a little higher than Hydro, but possibilities are limited. Diesel generation is cheaper than solar based on today's prices, particularly if it is cogen.
These rates assume no carbon tax etc.
framtech,
Oct 7, 5:23pm
You missed the point, The energy a car uses is only a small factor, its the energy used to create the car to start with, so with EV's there is stuff all saving on todays rates and petrol is plentiful and cheap. And on a long trip, who want to stop for even a minute, little only half an hour on a trip to piss around charging a battery. For example, I am towing my boat non stop, except for the ferry each way, from Napier to cromwell , For one thing the crappy battery car won't do the job, I will need to stop endless times to charge up and I need to meet ferries and can't be mucking around, it just won't wash. At present using petrol I can fuel up including drums of fuel for boat and just leave with a re fill at christchurch.
tony9,
Oct 7, 5:58pm
Very relevant study here, which does not assume all sorts of Green stuff etc.
What % of your home power does it supply? What does it cost per year after 3 years? Could you sell power direct to your neighbourr for their car if you had excess? How long will your setup last for?
,
Oct 8, 9:54am
The energy used to create a car is far less important than the emissions it produces over its lifetime including manufacture and disposal. EV's produce (with current tech) about 1 ton more than an equivalent petrol car (7 vs 8 tons). However over the life of the vehicle, the petrol car will produce around 57 tons of emissions, even when running off a grid powered by fossil fuels, an EV will produce less than 1/2 that. In New Zealand this will be 5 tons.
Electricity is even more plentiful and cheap than petrol (which has some serious negative environmental effects). My Leaf costs around $1.70 per 100km with no servicing costs.
At the moment the only option for a E.V. than can tow the boat is a Tesla, but that will change pretty quickly over the next couple of years with manufacturers bringing out a huge range of vehicles.
I have both a Leaf and diesel truck, and as a general rule the Leaf, even with our limited charging infrastructure and the cars short range is fine for long trips even down here in the deep south. It washes just fine with only a small amount of planning. Once the next generation of vehicles hits our shores this wont be an issue.
,
Oct 8, 10:02am
This is just factually nonsense.
So for all of New Zealand's vehicle fleet were to go to electric is around 500 Mwh of extra generation required, we already have far more than this already consented for construction. Total generation is not an issue. The problem is peak load, and the very point of this thread (did you read it?) is how EV's are a solution to this problem, which ironically although we'll use more power overall EV's could potentially bring the price of power down.
Actually to move 100% of New Zealand's vehicle fleet to electric only requires about 500 Mwh (0.5 Gwh) of extra electricity generation. We already have more than that consented for construction. Total power generation is not the problem, peak load is. That's the point of this thread EV's can be used to solve this problem.
tweake,
Oct 8, 10:35am
2nd that. also for peak loads during the day, most vehicles will be at work and not plugged in. might be ok for those who are retired etc and leave the car plugged in all day but for the bulk of the cars its not going to work.
,
Oct 8, 3:27pm
The daytime peak is insignificant compared to the evening peak when many cars will be plugged in.
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