sure on that? a lot of industry shuts down for the day. mind you if its a big evening peak (say on domestic lines) then all the electric cars plugging in and charging is going to make it worse not better.
i can't see how EV's can supply power to the grid when they are either charging over night or unplugged during the day.
,
Oct 8, 6:04pm
Then you're not really understanding what the point of vehicle to grid is. The cars are not charging, they're being used like ripple control on steroids.
New Zealand has 3.5 million cars, lets say they were all electric Nissan Leafs with 24Kwh batteries, lets say 30% as are plugged into the grid at 6pm and the power company is allowed to use 5% of the battery capacity of each one for peak load control. That's 1.2Kwh per car, so 1.26 Gwh of peak load offsetting storage.
The point is that you can use the huge numbers of batteries plugged into the grid to even out the peak loads while only actually using a tiny amount of each cars stored energy.
tweake,
Oct 8, 6:09pm
but most are owners will be wanting the car to be charging as soon as they get home, not discharging even more.
,
Oct 8, 7:51pm
It'll be an opt in system probably and the pricing will be such that people will be heavily discouraged from charging then. Most EV owners already charge at night due to the massive savings you make from using off peak power. I do 100km a day in may car and its not an issue for me.
tweake,
Oct 8, 7:56pm
the would have to make it price attractive. not only range anxiety but charging anxiety as well.
what would be interesting is home battery pack for off peak charging.
,
Oct 8, 8:28pm
They'll pay you for the storage, that's what they do now, where previously they would use diesel generators to smooth out the load, they'll use EV batteries currently connected to the grid. Its fundamentally more efficient so will be cheaper for everyone.
fordcrzy,
Oct 8, 10:02pm
At the moments it's physically impossible for evs to bolster yhe per grid. The circuitry involved to turn 240 volt into a dc charge voltage cannot work in reverse.
,
Oct 8, 10:33pm
Yeah you can, its called an inverter, they're fairly common tech, sure it will need to be managed by the lines companies for safety reasons, but these are not are not insurmountable technical problems. Other countries are already trialing it. As far as installation goes it's probably not much of a step over the thousands of smart meters that have been deployed over the last few years.
Looks like the new Nissan Leaf has a vehicle to grid charger built in, unsure if the service will be offered in NZ yet, but it is in other markets.
marte,
Oct 9, 1:11am
Nah, the invertor setup as above. But, because most people will have solar power, its already in their setup. And they can make power during the day, use it or store it for their car later on, or sell it whenever they want to. Or all of that at the same time.
tony9,
Oct 9, 10:12am
In NZ Hydro stations are used for frequency control (smoothing out the load?). Diesels are used in case of extreme generation need, but more frequently for voltage control. If anything, the more solar/inverter input, the more voltage control is required. In Aus inverter input from solar (but EV battery storage input would be the same) has caused significant Grid voltage instability as they don't have much much distributed rotating generation to balance it, hence the removal of input subsidies over there.
tony9,
Oct 9, 10:17am
Currently you can input up to 25KVA without lines company intervention, provided you have appropriate control gear. Thousands of solar installs in NZ are doing it now.
However as the input from those sources build up, more rotating reserve is required for grid stability. This is why Grid input incentives throughout the world are disappearing and some lines companies in NZ have started charging a "solar input" surcharge manage the growing issue.
fordcrzy,
Oct 9, 6:38pm
cars dont have the inverter in them and chargers dont have that ability either. i am quite aware of inverters. im a sparky.
,
Oct 9, 8:33pm
The inverter won't be in your car, it'll be in a box on the wall.
Nothing stopping you from selling your excess solar power direct to the neighbours to charge their vehicles too.
I'm not sure fast charging is all that suitable when its the nation grid powering it. But if its been saved up in your 5 yr old, stand alone ex electric car battery in your garage. It could then fast charge you car, or your neighbours, or your work vehicle. Or just power your house as usual.
harm_less,
Oct 11, 10:59pm
Take a look at the bigger picture. The disruption caused by the synergistic effects of batteries, EVs, autonomous vehicles, ride hailing (E.g. Uber) and PV is set to massively change our transportation in less than 10 years. This video presentation explains the effects of each of those technologies and how they will work in conjunction to change the world as we know it, And if you can't see NZ being part of this then we just may become the Cuba of the South Pacific and be driving ICE relics in a decade or two. https://youtu.be/2b3ttqYDwF0
I see the next big thing is hydrogen batteries see Amazon buying into it , havent read the article but this could be a game changer , no need for expensive lithium ?
mechnificent,
Oct 12, 2:53pm
They should be encouriging people into solar and batteries. Because solar panels put out about four times the power in full sun compared to cloud, we need to have a lot more than we need in summer, to meet our winter consumption. They could get everyone to install enough solar to supply all they need and some to spare for the grid in summer, but not enough to cover winter needs, and then sell people what they need to make up the difference between what they produce, and what they use, in winter.
harm_less,
Oct 12, 4:14pm
If nickel-hydrogen is what you are referring to they are bulky/lower in energy density than Li-Ion and have been around since the early 1970s, so unlikely to be gaining popularity now unless there has been a major breakthrough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93hydrogen_battery
If you mean hydrogen fuel cells they require a distribution network that does exist yet and as a fuel hydrogen still uses an ICE so 2,000+ moving parts, compared to about 20 in an EV. Sounds like a BETA vs VHS competition and we all know who lost that one.
mechnificent,
Oct 12, 4:22pm
I read years ago that toshiba were developing fast charge batteries. they charged to about eighty percent in about two minutes and full in five or ten. They were testing them in commercial applications, forkhoists etc before releasing them into general use.
I wonder where they are now.
mechnificent,
Oct 12, 4:24pm
And california had quite an extensive hydrogen refilling network a few years back.
BETA video tapes had their devotees at one time too .
mechnificent,
Oct 12, 5:22pm
Oh good stuff Harmless. cheers. I was too lazy to google.
The californians had quite an extensive distribution network. I thought it was going to be a runner. Seems not. Safety was always the issue.
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